To say that to criticise the actions of the Israeli state…

[MaggieBsBoat]

Is no more anti-Semitic than being critical of the actions of the Afghanistan state is anti-islam?

@pucelleauxblanchesmains because that's not a criticism!! Nothing you listed was a criticism. It was antisemitic comments.

You're essentially saying every criticism of Israel is antisemitism, which is isn't. Saying "I believe that Israel has a right to defend itself, but I believe their actions have gone too far now and it has gone beyond defending themselves, but I also acknowledge that the other countries in the region have also strayed beyond self defence." is not antisemitic.

[note that when I refer to Israel I mean the government, not the popularion]

If I were to say "the Taliban is bad because they are a theocracy who oppress women and non-believers", that's not Islamophobic. If I said "the Taliban are bad because Muslim men are all stupid & backwards" and I asked all my British Muslim colleagues to condemn the Taliban, that's Islamophobic.

I quite literally said not every criticism and indeed most criticisms of Israel are not antisemitic so I think I'll just leave it there.

I’ve seen the picture you’re talking about, it is terrifying.
Even more terrifying are comments like "sick of Jew-sympathetic posts right now", the hatred is really something else.
There is a woman in Germany, a local politician (Karoline Preisler), who regularly goes to pro-Palestine rallies holding up placards like “Rape is not resistance” or “Believe Israeli women”.
She’s been receiving numerous threats, including to her children, and needs police protection during the rallies. It’s mind blowing.

@pucelleauxblanchesmains so what was the point you were trying to make? People are being blatantly antisemitic? We know, and the entire thread has said they disagree with that.

You said it wasn't that simple, I said it was that simple, abide by the law, we definitely wouldn't have anything to worry about if every supposedly civilised nation did this but unfortunately they don't, but still expect to be treated as such

@itwasnevermine My point is that blanket statements like "criticising Israel isn't antisemitic" are very unhelpful given that people who are engaging in active racism will also claim to just have legitimate criticisms of Israel. I think each criticism should be judged on its own merits.

But you're conflating a criticism with blatant racism.

You should be able to make levelled, genuine criticism without being afraid of being labelled as a racist. It literally happened to me on this thread. I said I didn't think the loss of innocent life on all sides was good and I got called a Nazi.

@itwasnevermine Again, I have said multiple times you should be able to make normal criticisms and not be called a racist. Obviously saying loss of life on both sides is awful doesn't make you a Nazi or I'd be one myself. But I am not the one conflating the racism and the criticisms. The people who are saying things like "the Jews deserved the Holocaust for what they're doing to Gaza" are doing that themselves.

Perhaps this is relevant to the discussion.

‘The dossier also refers to Woodcock’s connections to Israel, including his chairing of the Labour Friends of Israel group and three expenses-paid trips to the country. Woodcock has been a bitter critic of pro-Palestine protests that have taken place in the UK over the past year since Israel began its latest war on Gaza.’

It is one example of how conflicts of interest within the system that is meant to protect us from extremism, can lead to the demonisation of people that support the human rights of those in Palestine, and the suppression of any criticism of Israel.

Ironically, it is then the system that behaves in an extreme way, by encouraging those within it to act in disproportionate ways to peaceful people who are exercising their rights.

It’s been almost a year since I was victimised for vocalising my empathy for the people in Gaza, and I haven’t forgotten it.

Thinking of those who have unfairly labelled and lost their lives, or been punished for caring about human rights. In comparison my experience is completely insignificant, but I can’t help wonder if another place and time, and if I wasn’t a white woman, I could be you.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/oct/11/keir-starmer-urged-to-sack-extremism-adviser-over-alleged-conflicts-of-interest