Page 10 | Currently Israel are fighting Hanas in Gaza, The Houthis in Yeman and Hezbollah in Lebanon.

EasternStandard · 30/09/2024 17:25

inamarina · 30/09/2024 16:31

until it stops and takes steps to reverse all expansion by Israel beyond the 1948 borders. Start by rolling back to 1967.

In your earlier post you said:

“It's simple, Israel withdraws from all the regions it has invaded and colonized since 1967. Israelis hand back the land and property they have stolen from the previous owners.
Then do the same back to 1948 borders, and then same again to pre mandate borders.”

Where would Israel withdraw to “to pre mandate borders”?

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and then same again to pre mandate borders.

Wondering what this means too

Frontofgarden · 30/09/2024 17:39

@NumberNotRecognised the IDF admitted to shooting the man waving the white flag some people have short memories, maybe you are forgetting they also shot their own hostages

Dulra · 30/09/2024 17:41

NumberNotRecognised · 30/09/2024 17:04

Can you show me where in the video it shows IDF troops shooting dead this poor man as I can’t see it?

It was obviously an active combat zone so I assume both the IDF and a terrorist combatants were in the vicinity.

The fact that ITV were there and filmed it rather undermines the assertion that no journalists are allowed in, no?

I was referring to the ideology of the Gazan government that it was a mother’s duty to raise their children for martyrdom’, and they have stated they need the blood of Palestinians spilled to encourage anger and provided links.

Are you disputing that it’s true?

Do you think it has no relevance to the high civilian death toll?

I can’t think of any other war in recent memory in these circumstances where a state has invaded a neighbouring state, horrifically murdered and raped over a thousand civilians, including babies and children, taken hundreds of hostages, including babies and children, FILMED IT ALL FOR SOCIAL MEDIA, then said we want as much blood of our men, women and children spilled as possible to instill anger and incite a revolution to defeat the state we just invaded? Can you?

As I said logic should be applied.

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Here's more witness statements on it.

The Guardian shared descriptions and images of gunshot wounds suffered by eight children with military experts and forensic pathologists. They said it was difficult to conclusively determine the circumstances of the shootings based on the descriptions and photos alone, although in some of the cases they were able to identify ammunition used by the Israeli military.

Eyewitness accounts and video recordings appear to back up claims that Israeli soldiers have fired on civilians, including children, outside of combat with Hamas or other armed groups. In some cases, witnesses describe coming under fire while waving white flags. Haaretz reported on Saturday that Israel routinely fires on civilians in areas its military has declared a “combat zone”.

www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/02/gaza-palestinian-children-killed-idf-israel-war

The fact that ITV were there and filmed it rather undermines the assertion that no journalists are allowed in, no?
Information on journalists in Gaza. This is back in Feb don't think any get access now

www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68423995.amp

‘Not a normal war’: doctors say children have been targeted by Israeli snipers in Gaza

IDF says it ‘completely rejects’ charge that its soldiers deliberately fired on any of the thousands of civilians killed in Israeli offensive

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/02/gaza-palestinian-children-killed-idf-israel-war

herecomesautumn · 30/09/2024 17:57

@Daftasabroom What do you mean Russia vs USA-NATO. Are you turning on Ukrainians now? Have they no agency?

now I see. Donations to U24due

PinkStringofHearts · 30/09/2024 19:11

NumberNotRecognised · 30/09/2024 17:04

Can you show me where in the video it shows IDF troops shooting dead this poor man as I can’t see it?

It was obviously an active combat zone so I assume both the IDF and a terrorist combatants were in the vicinity.

The fact that ITV were there and filmed it rather undermines the assertion that no journalists are allowed in, no?

I was referring to the ideology of the Gazan government that it was a mother’s duty to raise their children for martyrdom’, and they have stated they need the blood of Palestinians spilled to encourage anger and provided links.

Are you disputing that it’s true?

Do you think it has no relevance to the high civilian death toll?

I can’t think of any other war in recent memory in these circumstances where a state has invaded a neighbouring state, horrifically murdered and raped over a thousand civilians, including babies and children, taken hundreds of hostages, including babies and children, FILMED IT ALL FOR SOCIAL MEDIA, then said we want as much blood of our men, women and children spilled as possible to instill anger and incite a revolution to defeat the state we just invaded? Can you?

As I said logic should be applied.

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I don't think that anything you have said has relevence to the IDF shooting toddlers and children in the head. None of it.

You can talk around in circles, you can make up scenarios, you can make excuses but the IDF are shooting children in the head. This has happened. It has happened in the West Bank where it can't be so easily hidden and it has happened in Gaza. If you feel comfortable with your responses to that news then good for you but these circles you want to go in are not for me. Executing children is always wrong.

SharonEllis · 30/09/2024 19:48

StupidFarang · 30/09/2024 16:53

Wtf are premandate borders?
Are they the ones drawn up by the western imperialist Ottomans?

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Please tell us @Daftasabroom .

SunnyZebra · 30/09/2024 20:07

SharonEllis · 30/09/2024 19:48

Please tell us @Daftasabroom .

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The suspense is killing me!

Daftasabroom · 30/09/2024 20:14

I'm sure you saw this coming, so unless you have anything you'd like to disclose.....

Currently Israel are fighting Hanas in Gaza, The Houthis in Yeman and Hezbollah in Lebanon.

EasternStandard · 30/09/2024 20:21

Daftasabroom · 30/09/2024 20:14

I'm sure you saw this coming, so unless you have anything you'd like to disclose.....

Which year are you saying you want to go back to?

Do you mean 1917?

Daftasabroom · 30/09/2024 21:24

EasternStandard · 30/09/2024 20:21

Which year are you saying you want to go back to?

Do you mean 1917?

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It's pretty academic really isn't it? I don't think anyone, myself included, is seriously expecting a return to 1917 with everyone living harmoniously side by side in one happy community. Sadly.

What we need is a joint declaration by USA and Iran that they are both ceasing aid and assistance to all their proxies in the region. But that would need a massive shift in US policy towards Iran. It would need a massive shift in policy by Iran who has a mutual aid deal with Russia to support the war in Ukraine. Ukraine of course is being supported by US, UK, EU etc. Which brings us full circle back to the Crimean War in 1856 and the causes of the Crimean War.

Whichever way you look at it the settlement forced on the axis at the end of WW1 is perhaps the biggest single factor. It fed the rise of Hitler and the Nazis and in turn the horrors of the Holocaust as well the mandate in Palestine - both massive factors but they do not stand alone.

If we can't get that, a cease fire, return of hostages. Nuclear deal with Iran. Cease military aid to Israel. Israeli withdrawal from the occupied territories. It has to be a quid pro quo and it needs to start with Israel who are taking no notice of anyone.

EasternStandard · 30/09/2024 21:27

Daftasabroom · 30/09/2024 21:24

It's pretty academic really isn't it? I don't think anyone, myself included, is seriously expecting a return to 1917 with everyone living harmoniously side by side in one happy community. Sadly.

What we need is a joint declaration by USA and Iran that they are both ceasing aid and assistance to all their proxies in the region. But that would need a massive shift in US policy towards Iran. It would need a massive shift in policy by Iran who has a mutual aid deal with Russia to support the war in Ukraine. Ukraine of course is being supported by US, UK, EU etc. Which brings us full circle back to the Crimean War in 1856 and the causes of the Crimean War.

Whichever way you look at it the settlement forced on the axis at the end of WW1 is perhaps the biggest single factor. It fed the rise of Hitler and the Nazis and in turn the horrors of the Holocaust as well the mandate in Palestine - both massive factors but they do not stand alone.

If we can't get that, a cease fire, return of hostages. Nuclear deal with Iran. Cease military aid to Israel. Israeli withdrawal from the occupied territories. It has to be a quid pro quo and it needs to start with Israel who are taking no notice of anyone.

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It's pretty academic really isn't it? I don't think anyone, myself included, is seriously expecting a return to 1917

Ok so what did you mean by this?

and then same again to pre mandate borders.

HelenHen · 30/09/2024 22:15

YoYoYoYo12345 · 29/09/2024 17:14

One country taking on so many terrorist organisations.

Or is it so many terrorist organisations constantly attacking Israel.

So many hate filled terrorists. Why don't they ever focus on their own people and a better life for them. Are they all raving mad.

Indeed... you'd have to ponder the entire history of a region to figure out how it got into such a mess!

Nothing a thread on mumsnet can resolve.

And yet here we are with Israel killing left right and centre... almost literally. Where does it end?

Razilla · 30/09/2024 22:33

HelenHen · 30/09/2024 22:15

Indeed... you'd have to ponder the entire history of a region to figure out how it got into such a mess!

Nothing a thread on mumsnet can resolve.

And yet here we are with Israel killing left right and centre... almost literally. Where does it end?

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Actually, I think what Israel has done in the last week, may, just, pave the way to peace in the ME..you have to admire their intelligence...they've taken out in a few days about 15?(Maybe more) terrorists that were on on an international terror list with very few civilian casualties. The pager attack was brilliance. Very few civilian casualties. And the Lebanon attacks seem based on very good intelligence.

stomachamelon · 30/09/2024 22:51

And yet here we are with Israel killing left right and centre... almost literally. Where does it end?

Hopefully with an eradication of Iranian proxies and jihadist murderers hiding behind civilians.

It's almost as if you can't figure out why this is happening. Why monsters are being destroyed and countries celebrating. Hezbollah who have been firing thousands of rockets into Israel displacing thousands of Israelis, Houthis doing the same and terrorising their own country, Hamas murdering thousands and taking hostages.

I for one at glad Israel are doing something about it and hopefully more to come.

The antisemitism on here is appalling. I am happy to challenge and report.

Daftasabroom · 30/09/2024 22:52

Razilla · 30/09/2024 22:33

Actually, I think what Israel has done in the last week, may, just, pave the way to peace in the ME..you have to admire their intelligence...they've taken out in a few days about 15?(Maybe more) terrorists that were on on an international terror list with very few civilian casualties. The pager attack was brilliance. Very few civilian casualties. And the Lebanon attacks seem based on very good intelligence.

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And planned well in advance of October 7th no doubt.

But pave the way for peace? How?

I heard a quote last night "it's going to get worse before it gets worse".

HelenHen · 30/09/2024 23:12

stomachamelon · 30/09/2024 22:51

And yet here we are with Israel killing left right and centre... almost literally. Where does it end?

Hopefully with an eradication of Iranian proxies and jihadist murderers hiding behind civilians.

It's almost as if you can't figure out why this is happening. Why monsters are being destroyed and countries celebrating. Hezbollah who have been firing thousands of rockets into Israel displacing thousands of Israelis, Houthis doing the same and terrorising their own country, Hamas murdering thousands and taking hostages.

I for one at glad Israel are doing something about it and hopefully more to come.

The antisemitism on here is appalling. I am happy to challenge and report.

What did I say that was antisemitic?

Miffylou · 01/10/2024 02:22

SunnyZebra · 30/09/2024 17:22

Maybe even @Daftasabroom has realised that calling for all “Israelis” to leave is antisemitic…

And how does this proposed policy apply to Israeli Arabs? Druze? Ethiopian Jews, Jews who were ethnically cleansed from Yemen, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan etc? Do you realise that 52% of population of Israel are of black or Middle Eastern descent?

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I think @daftasabroom and some others need to read some history.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/meetdocs/20042009/documents/fd/il2006200607/il2006200607en.pdf

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2019-06-19/debates/F75D29CB-C4C8-447D-A028-1FA05CD3594D/JewishRefugeesFromTheMiddleEastAndNorthAfrica

StupidFarang · 01/10/2024 04:16

Daftasabroom · 30/09/2024 20:14

I'm sure you saw this coming, so unless you have anything you'd like to disclose.....

Well, you're basically saying the quiet part out loud with that I had hoped it was an error but no, it"s all about the destruction of israel. That's what you're going for with your wish for premandate borders (which is nonsensical but I now understand what you mean unfortunately)

That map is wrong by the way and makes no sense either. Everyone was Palestinian prior to the establishment of the state of israel, Jews and Arabs. Why have you decided jews werent Palestinian? So what were they? Most of the land was state land, not privately owned, so you seem to have taken state land and deemed that Palestinian in 1917 which is nuts and makes no sense and the little bit of Jewish owned land is Jewish. Wtf? And even that is wrong since in 1917 there was privately owned jewihs property in Jerusalem, Tzfat, Hebron, Tel Aviv, Petach Tikva, Tiberias, Rosh Pina, Rishon Letziyyon, Zikhron Yaakov, General, Hadera, Rehovot, Metula, Motza, Ness tziyona, mazkeret battalion, yavneel, Kfar Tavor, Atlit, Kfar Saba, Givat Ada, Degania, moshavat Kinnerton, kfar giladi among others. All established during pre mandate rule under the western imperialist Ottomans.
You didn't bother to include that in your 1917 map. Why?

I don't think you know very much to be so opinionated about wiping a country off the map.

Original poster

YoYoYoYo12345 · 01/10/2024 04:17

StupidFarang · 01/10/2024 04:16

Well, you're basically saying the quiet part out loud with that I had hoped it was an error but no, it"s all about the destruction of israel. That's what you're going for with your wish for premandate borders (which is nonsensical but I now understand what you mean unfortunately)

That map is wrong by the way and makes no sense either. Everyone was Palestinian prior to the establishment of the state of israel, Jews and Arabs. Why have you decided jews werent Palestinian? So what were they? Most of the land was state land, not privately owned, so you seem to have taken state land and deemed that Palestinian in 1917 which is nuts and makes no sense and the little bit of Jewish owned land is Jewish. Wtf? And even that is wrong since in 1917 there was privately owned jewihs property in Jerusalem, Tzfat, Hebron, Tel Aviv, Petach Tikva, Tiberias, Rosh Pina, Rishon Letziyyon, Zikhron Yaakov, General, Hadera, Rehovot, Metula, Motza, Ness tziyona, mazkeret battalion, yavneel, Kfar Tavor, Atlit, Kfar Saba, Givat Ada, Degania, moshavat Kinnerton, kfar giladi among others. All established during pre mandate rule under the western imperialist Ottomans.
You didn't bother to include that in your 1917 map. Why?

I don't think you know very much to be so opinionated about wiping a country off the map.

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Hear hear 👏

OP posts:

Catatonican · 01/10/2024 05:44

Razilla · 30/09/2024 22:33

Actually, I think what Israel has done in the last week, may, just, pave the way to peace in the ME..you have to admire their intelligence...they've taken out in a few days about 15?(Maybe more) terrorists that were on on an international terror list with very few civilian casualties. The pager attack was brilliance. Very few civilian casualties. And the Lebanon attacks seem based on very good intelligence.

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🤢🤮

StupidFarang · 01/10/2024 05:52

Daftasabroom · 30/09/2024 22:52

And planned well in advance of October 7th no doubt.

But pave the way for peace? How?

I heard a quote last night "it's going to get worse before it gets worse".

Show quote history

Of course there have been contingency plans for confrontation with Lebanon well before 7/10. Hamas caught israel on the back foot and was a massive failing. However israel has been well aware of what's being going on with Hezbollah and the way they now have more missiles than many countirs and the way they have continually violated security council resolution 1701 since 2006 which was the basis for ending the 2nd Lenanon war. One would expect them to have planned for this.

SharonEllis · 01/10/2024 07:09

StupidFarang · 01/10/2024 04:16

Well, you're basically saying the quiet part out loud with that I had hoped it was an error but no, it"s all about the destruction of israel. That's what you're going for with your wish for premandate borders (which is nonsensical but I now understand what you mean unfortunately)

That map is wrong by the way and makes no sense either. Everyone was Palestinian prior to the establishment of the state of israel, Jews and Arabs. Why have you decided jews werent Palestinian? So what were they? Most of the land was state land, not privately owned, so you seem to have taken state land and deemed that Palestinian in 1917 which is nuts and makes no sense and the little bit of Jewish owned land is Jewish. Wtf? And even that is wrong since in 1917 there was privately owned jewihs property in Jerusalem, Tzfat, Hebron, Tel Aviv, Petach Tikva, Tiberias, Rosh Pina, Rishon Letziyyon, Zikhron Yaakov, General, Hadera, Rehovot, Metula, Motza, Ness tziyona, mazkeret battalion, yavneel, Kfar Tavor, Atlit, Kfar Saba, Givat Ada, Degania, moshavat Kinnerton, kfar giladi among others. All established during pre mandate rule under the western imperialist Ottomans.
You didn't bother to include that in your 1917 map. Why?

I don't think you know very much to be so opinionated about wiping a country off the map.

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Yes. We got there in the end. The destruction of Israel. Trying to dress it up with pseudo history, the antisemite's best friend.

SharonEllis · 01/10/2024 07:11

StupidFarang · 01/10/2024 05:52

Of course there have been contingency plans for confrontation with Lebanon well before 7/10. Hamas caught israel on the back foot and was a massive failing. However israel has been well aware of what's being going on with Hezbollah and the way they now have more missiles than many countirs and the way they have continually violated security council resolution 1701 since 2006 which was the basis for ending the 2nd Lenanon war. One would expect them to have planned for this.

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Of course. Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in a fantasy world. All governments & defence services plan for a whole range of scenarios to take out the people who have their guns pointing at them.

StupidFarang · 01/10/2024 07:35

HelenHen · 30/09/2024 22:15

Indeed... you'd have to ponder the entire history of a region to figure out how it got into such a mess!

Nothing a thread on mumsnet can resolve.

And yet here we are with Israel killing left right and centre... almost literally. Where does it end?

Show quote history

Perhaps when Iran stops trying to fight Israel though proxies which are also destabilising the entire region? Why would the Houthis in Yemen fire ballistic missiles at Israel? Why would Iranian funded militias in Iraq fire cruise missiles at Israel? Why would Hezbollah build up a massive arsenal of weaponry in southern Lebanon in clear violation of UN security council resolution 1701 which ended the 2nd Lebanon war unless they wanted another round? In what way does this benefit the long suffering people of Yemen, Iraq or Lebanon?

Dulra · 01/10/2024 08:16

Razilla · 30/09/2024 22:33

Actually, I think what Israel has done in the last week, may, just, pave the way to peace in the ME..you have to admire their intelligence...they've taken out in a few days about 15?(Maybe more) terrorists that were on on an international terror list with very few civilian casualties. The pager attack was brilliance. Very few civilian casualties. And the Lebanon attacks seem based on very good intelligence.

Show quote history

you have to admire their intelligence...they've taken out in a few days about 15?(Maybe more) terrorists that were on on an international terror list with very few civilian casualties.
I actually find bombing tower blocks because you know there are terrorist's inside not something to admire and it is the easy option when you don't have concern for innocent casualties, far harder to take terrorists out through military intelligence and covert operations. Bombing the the hell out of a city is easy when you have the military might of Israel. The harder part is trying to build peace from the rubble, that will determine how successful this whole opertaion is. Too early to assess it properly now.