Pagers and walkie talkies .....audacious and successful strike against terrorists

[mids2019]

If a large number of members of Al Quaeda or ISIS were killed with a precise attack I think in the West there would be admiration and indeed satisfaction that such a military success had occurred.

However I am disturbed by the reporting of the targeted neutralization of terrorists within Lebanon with even the main stream press virtually describing those struck as civilians and questioning the legality and morality of this! Have we lost our moral compassess?

There were some unfortunate civil an deaths but given the scale of the strike this was a terrible inevitability. However the civil an to combatant rratio was very small in reality as the explosions were kinky d to a personal zone. Yet when we read the press we allow terrorist propaganda calling the events a massacre of even that trumped up word 'genocide' that people seem to love.

If Osama bin Laden had been brought to a local hospital would we have allowed weeping doctors to lament his injuries? Thought not.

If there weren't thousands of lives being torn apart in Palestine, Israel and now Lebanon, it might be funny, but sadly it's not, because there are.

It’s been for a while and there is loads of hate against innocent civilians that shouldn’t be normalised

It’s precise language. It is not meant to be dehumanising. It doesn’t reflect how I personally feel about children being killed in military conflicts. I know people can’t help but to feel emotional about this topic but it isn’t helpful to the conversation to not deal with the substance and fall back on “well y’know you just sound like a bad person”.

I think it’s awful to compare the temporary displacement of northern Israelis to hotels to the past year’s permanent ethnic cleansing of over 2 million Palestinians who aren’t even allowed to evacuate away from the bombs raining down on them.

The situation of northern Israelis (60 thousand) is only comparable imho to the situation of the southern Lebanese (100 thousand) because both groups have been temporarily evacuated from the Israel & Lebanon border due to the exchange of rockets and bombs between Hezbollah and IDF.

The IDF has killed 20x more Lebanese with their high tech laser guided bombs than Hezbollah have killed Israeli with their more antiquated rockets.

Besides, the pager operation is fubar so badly that Israel never claimed credit for it and today Israel’s President Herzog has publicly denied they did it. So it obviously cannot be so audacious and awesome and celebratory if the most likely suspect is disavowing having done it or being connected to it in any way.

Yes, I imagine the Israelis are well aware, but as I have said again, in this instance Israel were not the aggressors. They did not break a ceasefire, that was Hamas, they did not attack Hezbollah, they were attacked by Hezbollah. In this conflict they were victims of an attack by Hamas and Hezbollah.

Even tbh the Palestinian situation, there is a reason that Israel and Gaza have got here

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ListofPalestiniansuicideattacks

This is why checkpoints exist, why the blockade exists, this is why Israelis have basically militarised parts of the country.

I fully understand why Palestinians feel aggrieved but I also understand why Israelis are understandably aggrieved too. They are under attack and any response to those attacks is painted as Israel just doing bad shit because it’s evil, it’s nonsensical.

Wasn’t Israel…said President Herzog
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/israel-hezbollah-benjamin-netanyahu-sky-news-trevor-phillips-b1183406.html
Almost like whoever did it wanted to see the international reaction first.

I agree I don’t think it’s comparable, but I think it’s a bit silly to say Israel are worse because they have killed more (primarily Hezbollah members) because Hezbollah are basically a bit shit and Israel is better at war (in it’s current form).

That is a pretty big fib, just on the basis that I doubt anyone has an intelligence agency that is as able as Mossad, definitely not in the region.

I think so too.

They did not break a ceasefire, that was Hamas,

I am not justifying Hamas’ Oct 7th attack, nor am I implying it, but the truth is there was no ceasefire prior to their attack. Hamas’ attack was a clear escalation and included thousands of war crimes, but it did not happen out of the blue nor was it a violation of any agreed ceasefire because no ceasefire existed at the time.

Do they need to even be in the region? The pagers were shipped across the globe. Plenty of opportunity to booby trap the pagers between origin and destination.

And yet it is dehumanising, and if this war/conflict (whatever) is going to stop we need to stop speaking in terms that minimise what is going on.
We should be talking in real numbers about real people because that is what is being destroyed.

That’s why they’ve not said anything about it but taken advantage by bombing Lebanon in the last few days. Because it wasn’t them. Like it wasn’t them many previous times

I didn’t say Israel was worse because they have killed more:
”The IDF has killed 20x more Lebanese with their high tech laser guided bombs than Hezbollah have killed Israeli with their more antiquated rockets.”

Is a bare nothing but the facts statement that links the higher Lebanese deaths to the IDF’s superior military weapons. There is no hint of a judgement in it.

I can’t believe you just posted that.

Why? Because they are Israeli? Palestinians can be referred to as collateral damage and that’s ok because?

No.

Because collateral damage means the unintentional deaths and injuries of people who are not soldiers.

In what situation could women, children, babies, the elderly and unarmed non fighting men murdered by the actual hands of violent depraved individuals ever be considered unintentional?

Unless, of course, you consider this situation meets the definition of collateral damage because they are Israeli.

I know what collateral damage means and the mass murder of Palestians does not fall under collateral damage any more than the mass murder on the Israeli on the 7th of October. It’s both just mass murder.

Actually @tupence.....

In a war or conflict people are accidentally killed.

In a terrorist incursion there is no accident. Terrorists set out to purposely kill, as at the kibbutz or festival.

There is a clear definition.

In WW1 and WW2 both the allies and the enemies of the allies (the aggressors) had people die that were non combatants.

@Tuppence1234 has a valid point. MSF doctors have been reporting on the unprecedented number of preteen children coming in shot in the head and chest by IDF snipers. There is also footage of unarmed women, children and elderly being deliberately shot and killed by IDF. There have also been several massacres of Palestinians while they were lining up for flour, water, bread, to get into a hospital. There was Hind Rajab & her family massacred by a tank. There have been hundreds of journalists and healthcare workers also targeted and killed.

This is even if you can confirm that 100% of the bombs dropped were on legitimate targets and the collateral damage was proportional to the military necessity.

A definition:

"Meaning of collateral damage in English
during a war, the unintentional deaths and injuries of people who are not soldiers, and damage that is caused to their homes, hospitals, schools, etc."

WWs were before the international laws defining war crimes were written and adopted by the UN & all its nations, including Israel.

We can no more compare todays wars to the WWs than we can compare the WWs to Alexander the Great’s wars.

Those deaths sound more like war crimes and need investigating. Collateral damage is more a term for accidentally killing during a war. Hence, terrorist attacks aren't accidental deaths.