Pagers and walkie talkies .....audacious and successful strike against terrorists

[mids2019]

If a large number of members of Al Quaeda or ISIS were killed with a precise attack I think in the West there would be admiration and indeed satisfaction that such a military success had occurred.

However I am disturbed by the reporting of the targeted neutralization of terrorists within Lebanon with even the main stream press virtually describing those struck as civilians and questioning the legality and morality of this! Have we lost our moral compassess?

There were some unfortunate civil an deaths but given the scale of the strike this was a terrible inevitability. However the civil an to combatant rratio was very small in reality as the explosions were kinky d to a personal zone. Yet when we read the press we allow terrorist propaganda calling the events a massacre of even that trumped up word 'genocide' that people seem to love.

If Osama bin Laden had been brought to a local hospital would we have allowed weeping doctors to lament his injuries? Thought not.

The calls for a free Palestine though need to be met with thought. A lot of Palestinians in reality aren't going to go down a two state path as it means giving up on any perceived right to land they had pre 1948. The hate filled ideologies of Hamas and Hizbollah are based on the non existence id Israel and therefore for any meaningful peace it is helpful to get rid of both the groups and dent the ideology.

One hope maybe is that a lot of young men in Lebanon will be not willing to join Hizbollah as the group has been shown to be to weak and has been seriously disrupted as an organisation. There are relatively few of any populace that hopefully want to be suicidal martyrs for causes such as the blood thirsty savage Hamas and Hizbollah

Although there are risks of a wider conflagration in the middle east the action from Israel certainly hasn't had major response from Iran or Hizbollah. It also may be the case eventually Israelis can return to the land in the north if it becomes safer.

I think it would be good to get Israel's perspective on how close they are to finishing action in Gaza. Hopefully if more senior leadership, god willing, can be put out of action permanently then a governing group will arise that as pp remarked on isn't genocidal in its ambitions for Israel.

Well the Palestinians (PLO) did recognise Israel and Israel did recognised PLO as representing the Palestinian people in the Oslo agreement. This agreement broke down and I am sure you are familiar with the many reasons why.

@mids2019 - what is your view on the illegal occupation by Israel ? Land which under the Oslo agreement was give to the Palestinians, but once Netanyahu came into power, he went after.

Once again @mids2019 absolutely no acknowledgment or reflection on Israel's behaviour.

Just more of the same focus on the hatred of the "other side".

Until Israel supporters acknowledge the grotesque injustices Isreal carries out every day, there is no point in talking.

Yes this is true. No point in engaging as these posts are just so repetitive now and not very nuanced.

And what kind of 'ideology' do you think leads a country to commit apartheid, to kill 100s of people every year, to torture them in military prisons? A peace filled ideology? A love filled ideology?

Again you aren't acknowledging the horrific things that Israel do, things that aren't rooted in any kind of peace loving ideology. How do you expect occupied people who are forced to live under apartheid and fear for their homes and lives to feel? The way to get rid of the hate is to end occupation, end apartheid, end the killings not to up the levels of suffering. Would you support Palestinians killing Israelis until they display signs of peace loving ideology because that is what you seem to think will work the other way around.

Maybe it sometimes may be a good idea to separate from a people that launched October 7th?.in effect anyway if you do have a Palestinian state there is a degree facto separation of peoples due to the existence of the state.

Maybe Israel isn't perfect in some of its military activities but I do think the solution is primarily for people in the region to accept the existence of Israel and by extension it's right to self defence of threatened. The problem again so many of the players in the region including of course Palesrine want Israel not to exist.

I don't think Israel actually wishes to occupy anywhere, they do wish it's people do be secure though. It costs money and lives to permanently have military in a region of land.

I don't think many people a dress how the state of Gaza is meant to work actually. A state needs to function economically so I presume the enclave would need trading relationships with both Egypt or Israel. It would be up to Israel and Egypt to determine what trading relationships would exist and importantly what border controls would exist. I am always a bit confused that if Egypt recognises a Paelstinain state why it doesn't allow the free flow of peaceful Palestinians through the rafah crossing.

Of course this is a moot point as until you get to a state where a charitable Palestinoans stop paying claim to Israel as a whole you will keep going through this cycle of violence with Israel having to suppress terrorist activity from Gaza.

Like I said - pointless.

Over 100 rockets fired into Israel again by hezbollah. Israel should suck it up or try to target the terrorists attacking them 🤔

Shame they cannot all accept each others right to exist, draw up a state boundary and respect those. This would be the best solution for all the innocents in all the countries involved.

But terrorists with a "we will wipe you mentality" will not do this.

What are you talking about with you Israel not wishing to occupy anywhere? OP- I think you really need to educate yourself a bit here. Look into Israel’s settlement policy in Palestine and at least be aware that you are supporting a country breaking international law here. You seem quite happy to do this, but from reading your posts I think you lack basic knowledge too.

What I find interesting is that none of the countries, all Muslim, encircling Israel and Gaza seem willing to take in Palestinians as refugees. I know why, but it’s very different to the willingness of European states to take in Ukrainian refugees. The Egyptians have fortified their border to prevent this.

You realise there are already millions of refugees in the neighbouring countries with no right to return?

Exactly and you are saying in your post you know why. Then you know you cannot really compare the situation to Ukraine.

@Happyher
How surprising that surrounding states don’t want to be complicit in the ethnic cleansing of their co-religionists. Surprising that they don’t want to become targets of Israel when the the displaced Palestinians fire rockets at the Israelis living in their old homes. Surprised that they don’t welcome hosting various Iran backed militia groups while they struggle to maintain any kind of stable government in an economically and demographically challenging situation.
I don’t find it strange at all

@Tuppence1234 i think you meant to quote the previous poster.

Yes I am not doing well on my quotes at the moment

This is why
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/02/21/why-arab-states-wont-support-palestinians-qa-00142277

"they would have nowhere in the Arab world to go, says former U.S. Ambassador Ryan Crocker. Despite public support for Palestinian rights, in truth nearly every Arab state has long viewed the Palestinians with “fear and loathing,” Crocker says. This is especially true of Egypt, which will continue to refuse to admit Palestinians from across the border, he says."

"There is no difference between Hezbollah and Lebanon. Lebanon will be annihilated. It will cease to exist." — Israel's Minister of Education

https://x.com/RamAbdu/status/1837483041360695761

https://www.commondreams.org/news/lebanon-escalation

You left out the part where he acknowledges the grotesque behaviour of the Israeli state.

"We’ve all seen the horror of Gaza, and that’s overshadowed the nightmare of the West Bank, which is appalling in its own right."

My reply was to @happy who was asking why the surrounding countries didn't take in Palestinians. That quote was a reason given

Of course Palestinians say they are occupied because to many the occupied territories encompass the whole of Israel! Gaza is not occupied in the sense it chooses its own governance, Hamas, but that kind of didn't end up too well. Maybe some people mistake occupation with ensuring you don't send rockets against us?

Any way occupation will become a redundant point of you have two states but you only get two states when the players focussing this don't have the eradication of IsrWl and Jews as a number one priority 🤷

The majority of people living in Israel were 'not shipped in from America in the main'. The Israeli population comes from Europe, the Middle East and Russia as well as Northern America. HTH

Yoyo

I am amazed at how many people tour the two state solution without a realistic appraisal of how it would work with borders etc. There are clear borders with Israel and turnaround have to be respected after the state establishment and Israel would be able to have defensive military posture at those borders.

we already have one border not respected in the North where Hizbollah have effectively driven out Israelis in the border region. Israel quite rightly wants her people to live peacefully in this land so have made aware goal to neutralise military threats to this region. The strategy seems to be to attack Hizbollah on numerous fronts with maybe quite an ingenious pager attack followed by air strikes against rocket launchers.

To have a two state solution you need actors that believe in the two state process and that means removal of terrorist organisations that simply want the destruction of Israel and her people. I don't see philosophically why this is a problem.

The poster was referring to the settlement policies.