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Conflict in the Middle East

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SharonEllis · 10/09/2024 16:20

Auvergne63 · 10/09/2024 16:18

I asked because your previous posts are not clear on the subject. That's all.

Unlike your posts equivocating on Hamas's responsibility because 'geography'.

Auvergne63 · 10/09/2024 16:30

SharonEllis · 10/09/2024 16:20

Unlike your posts equivocating on Hamas's responsibility because 'geography'.

It would be helpful for you to understand the difference between explaining and excusing a behaviour.

ToBeDetermined · 10/09/2024 16:41

Zzippit · 10/09/2024 15:02

Interesting that you view the voices and experiences of Gazan civilians as propaganda when they’re crittical of Hamas.

Your link isn’t to any source stating that the five air strikes using 2,000lb bombs (one of which could level a building) claimed to be aimed at 1 tent by IDF killed the Hamas aerial unit commander guy. Your link goes to a video alleged to be an argument between a woman and some Hamas guys trying to commandeer her tent.

SharonEllis · 10/09/2024 16:44

Auvergne63 · 10/09/2024 16:30

It would be helpful for you to understand the difference between explaining and excusing a behaviour.

Dictionaries are available. Explaining is a factual thing. 'That rocket launcher can't go there because there is a big rock in the way'. Excusing is trying to make out that a choice was an inevitability when in fact there were other options. Putting a rocket launcher in a school is a choice, even if the area is densely populated. Making sure your rocket launcher is nowhere near your own citizens is an alternative, and most would think, preferable, choice.

ToBeDetermined · 10/09/2024 16:44

Zzippit · 10/09/2024 15:34

Got that from the Gazan Health Ministry, do you doubt their veracity?

? Where is the link showing you got that from the Gaza Health Ministry? The link you posted was to a video that alleges to show a woman arguing with Hamas who are trying to take her tent.

ToBeDetermined · 10/09/2024 16:47

Zzippit · 10/09/2024 16:18

Do you find it outrageous that Hamas terrorists congregate in designated civilian zones knowing that this makes the area a target? Do you find it outrageous that they deliberately endanger the people there because they want to maximise civilian deaths and injuries? Clearly that doesn’t bother you.

Terrorists in civilian humanitarian areas do not turn those areas into valid military targets. IDF keeps saying it does to excuse their targeting of civilian humanitarian areas, but that’s not what the law says as UN experts have been frequently reminding the world.

Zzippit · 10/09/2024 16:52

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ToBeDetermined · 10/09/2024 16:54

SharonEllis · 10/09/2024 16:44

Dictionaries are available. Explaining is a factual thing. 'That rocket launcher can't go there because there is a big rock in the way'. Excusing is trying to make out that a choice was an inevitability when in fact there were other options. Putting a rocket launcher in a school is a choice, even if the area is densely populated. Making sure your rocket launcher is nowhere near your own citizens is an alternative, and most would think, preferable, choice.

Edited

The funny thing is that in all the schools bombed for allegedly having Hamas or PIJ rocket launchers, the only rocket bits found in the rubble are the bits of the missiles used by the IDF to bomb the schools. There haven’t been any bits of blown up rocket launchers found not once. In addition, we have footage of the exact moment missiles where dropped on schools being used as shelters and you can see no rocket launchers or weaponry. You see children playing football- then blam! blood, concrete dust and body oarts. You see people huddled under a bit of plastic and then blam! Other people, mostly children, under other bits of plastic blown to pieces.

ToBeDetermined · 10/09/2024 16:55

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No, I am asking for where you got your information because the link you posted was to something completely different, irrelevant and also unverified.

SharonEllis · 10/09/2024 16:57

ToBeDetermined · 10/09/2024 16:54

The funny thing is that in all the schools bombed for allegedly having Hamas or PIJ rocket launchers, the only rocket bits found in the rubble are the bits of the missiles used by the IDF to bomb the schools. There haven’t been any bits of blown up rocket launchers found not once. In addition, we have footage of the exact moment missiles where dropped on schools being used as shelters and you can see no rocket launchers or weaponry. You see children playing football- then blam! blood, concrete dust and body oarts. You see people huddled under a bit of plastic and then blam! Other people, mostly children, under other bits of plastic blown to pieces.

My explanation was hypothetical. But I'm interested that you have verified sources & evidence for all of these incidents.

ToBeDetermined · 10/09/2024 17:23

SharonEllis · 10/09/2024 16:57

My explanation was hypothetical. But I'm interested that you have verified sources & evidence for all of these incidents.

It would take me ages to dig them all up, but I have been reading the CNN, BBC and Sened detailed analyses of these incidents as they have been published. They go into great depth analysing footage on the ground before, during, and after the air strikes. They also analyse satellite imagery directly before and after the strikes to look for evidence of rocket launchers there or even nearby (within the accuracy range of the missiles used).

I do trust these sources as they have a pro-Israeli bias and so are unlikely to tamper with any evidence or overlook anything that would support the IDF’s version of events.

Auvergne63 · 10/09/2024 18:00

SharonEllis · 10/09/2024 16:44

Dictionaries are available. Explaining is a factual thing. 'That rocket launcher can't go there because there is a big rock in the way'. Excusing is trying to make out that a choice was an inevitability when in fact there were other options. Putting a rocket launcher in a school is a choice, even if the area is densely populated. Making sure your rocket launcher is nowhere near your own citizens is an alternative, and most would think, preferable, choice.

Edited

I suggest you use your dictionary then because explaining does not equal sticking to facts at all time. I can explain to you why I am late, this doesn't mean that I will give you the real reason why. I can explain to you why the sky is blue some days but I could be wrong in my explanation.
Excusing means to forgive someone or something.
But enough of semantics.
Excusing is trying to make out that a choice was an inevitability when in fact there were other options
I could apply this to the IDF.

SharonEllis · 10/09/2024 18:22

Auvergne63 · 10/09/2024 18:00

I suggest you use your dictionary then because explaining does not equal sticking to facts at all time. I can explain to you why I am late, this doesn't mean that I will give you the real reason why. I can explain to you why the sky is blue some days but I could be wrong in my explanation.
Excusing means to forgive someone or something.
But enough of semantics.
Excusing is trying to make out that a choice was an inevitability when in fact there were other options
I could apply this to the IDF.

You could apply it to anything or anyone. Obviously.

SharonEllis · 10/09/2024 18:31

Auvergne63 · 10/09/2024 18:00

I suggest you use your dictionary then because explaining does not equal sticking to facts at all time. I can explain to you why I am late, this doesn't mean that I will give you the real reason why. I can explain to you why the sky is blue some days but I could be wrong in my explanation.
Excusing means to forgive someone or something.
But enough of semantics.
Excusing is trying to make out that a choice was an inevitability when in fact there were other options
I could apply this to the IDF.

Just because YOU might (revealingly) chose to lie in an explanation doesn't take away from the fact that factual information is pretty central to most people's understanding of what an explanation is. The first dictionary definition I find if I google is this: 'make (an idea or situation) clear to someone by describing it in more detail or revealing relevant facts.'

Have good evening.

Itoosurvive · 10/09/2024 18:35

I am reading the messages on this and the other threads and just cannot comprehend how anyone can think that Israel's response to the attacks of October 7th is anything other than disproportionate. Not only disproportionate, but more tragically, unnecessary. And I say all that, as a Jew.

Scirocco · 10/09/2024 19:09

To bomb a 'safe zone' like that, and for people to defend that... Astaghfirullah.

Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'un. May the innocent people martyred find peace in Jannat al-Firdaus.

OP posts:
Zzippit · 10/09/2024 19:17

No one is defending it. No-one is suggesting the IDF's actions are a proportionate response. However, the amount of projection and accusation going on here are truly disproportionate responses to what has actually been said.

Dulra · 10/09/2024 20:01

Zzippit · 10/09/2024 19:17

No one is defending it. No-one is suggesting the IDF's actions are a proportionate response. However, the amount of projection and accusation going on here are truly disproportionate responses to what has actually been said.

However, the amount of projection and accusation going on here are truly disproportionate responses to what has actually been said.
What are your examples of truly disproportionate responses?

Auvergne63 · 10/09/2024 20:30

SharonEllis · 10/09/2024 18:31

Just because YOU might (revealingly) chose to lie in an explanation doesn't take away from the fact that factual information is pretty central to most people's understanding of what an explanation is. The first dictionary definition I find if I google is this: 'make (an idea or situation) clear to someone by describing it in more detail or revealing relevant facts.'

Have good evening.

Just because YOU might (revealingly) chose to lie
Thanks, but I’m not accepting unsolicited feedback on what type of person you believe I am, but I would like to know what was your intention with that comment and why you feel comfortable to repeatedly attack my character.

SharonEllis · 10/09/2024 20:36

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Scirocco · 10/09/2024 20:40

An explanation can seek to understand how and why something has happened. An excuse is an attempt to say that whatever happened was ok.

Example:

"I was late home because I missed the last train." vs "It's not a big deal that I was late home because it's not like we had anything special planned."

OP posts:
SharonEllis · 10/09/2024 20:42

Scirocco · 10/09/2024 20:40

An explanation can seek to understand how and why something has happened. An excuse is an attempt to say that whatever happened was ok.

Example:

"I was late home because I missed the last train." vs "It's not a big deal that I was late home because it's not like we had anything special planned."

IAnd this adds what to the conversation?

Scirocco · 10/09/2024 20:44

SharonEllis · 10/09/2024 20:42

IAnd this adds what to the conversation?

It's definitions of excusing and explaining, which seem to be getting discussed. Is there a problem with me posting? If so, please feel free to explain what that is.

OP posts:
Auvergne63 · 10/09/2024 20:51

Scirocco · 10/09/2024 20:40

An explanation can seek to understand how and why something has happened. An excuse is an attempt to say that whatever happened was ok.

Example:

"I was late home because I missed the last train." vs "It's not a big deal that I was late home because it's not like we had anything special planned."

Thanks @Scirocco . As English is my second language, I can be clumsy at times and don't manage to convey what I really mean to say. It is so frustrating.

Scirocco · 10/09/2024 20:52

@Auvergne63 I think your English is really good, and conveys things far better than you give yourself credit for.

OP posts: