Hamas leader killed

[Billyballyboo]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/jul/31/middle-east-crisis-live-updates-hamas-leader-ismail-haniyeh-killed-iran-israel-gaza-war

Any thoughts on this?

Do you think it would be worse than what Israel are doing to Palestinians in Gaza? Shooting their children in the head, babies starving every day of the week, having their health are system destroyed, having their water and sanitation taken away, people with additional needs attacked by dogs and left to bleed to death, merciless bombing for months and months, mass graves, according to Drs who have been in Gaza pretty much every child is either ill, injured, suffering from malnutrition or dead, I could go on and on and on.

It feels like you are justifying this ^^ when you say I understand people's concern about Palestinians but what about Israelis. Are you afraid that something similar to what is happening to Palestinians might possibly happen to Israelis? How much worse does actual reality for Palestinians who are having their toddlers executed(according to international Drs who have been in Gaza and who have evidence of this) have to get before in your mind they are prioritised over what might possibly maybe happen to Israelis?

“Are you afraid that something similar to what is happening to Palestinians might possibly happen to Israelis?”
Well … yes … and worse …

I think we should all be worried about what could happen next because it might be closer to home than we would like

What would "worse" look like to you @Limesodaagain because what is happening in Gaza is beyond anyone's nightmares and it keeps on getting worse. You're placing more importance over one life over another.

No I’m not “placing more importance over one life over another” .
Every single life is equally of value to God
And if you don’t being God then every single life must be worthy of love and respect?

I don’t understand why you think I place more importance over one life than another?

Right so presumably you want the West to step in and help Palestinians against Israel? Because what a lot of people have been saying from the beginning is that when the West doesn't just ignore but funds Israels atrocities in Gaza they are setting a new standard of acceptable. It would be very hypercrital of the West to step in and help Israel against any of the things I mentioned above when they have actually given them the greenlight to happen. If Israelis end up trapped, bombed, with most of their children injured, sick or dead and Hamas executing their children the precedent now is to leave them be(or throw more ammunition their way), because according to the US this isn't against International law, it's actually fine. Why should the West interfere with something that isn't a war crime, it's something that 'just happens in war'? That is what the war in Gaza has told us no?

I'm sure you agree that Israeli children are no more deserving of our help than Palestinian children. Right now all Palestinian children are ill, injured suffering from malnutrition or dead and still the US is arming Israel, still the West are not helping to protect Palestinians, still Israel have not been sanctioned by the UK, US or EU. That's the bar now, you don't get help when all of your children are at severe risk, the West sits back and watches instead. Unless of course you think there is a reason Israeli children should be protected where Palestinian children aren't?

I think other forces are at play. I think it’s complicated.

Israeli children have been subjected to attempted genocide for the past 18 years. Tens of thousands of missiles - cutely termed 'rockets' - have been fired from Gaza into Southern Israel over the past 18 years.

Missiles that were fired indiscriminately, I should add, and with the express desire to genocide as many Jews as possible.

Do you know where the Israeli kids were during the missile attacks? In bomb shelters, that's where. Because the Jews don't want to die, nor do they want their kids to be 'martyrs'. That's why they shielded themselves and protected themselves as best can be.

The question we should be asking, yet hardly anyone does, is why aren't the Palestinian kids in Gaza hiding in bomb shelters? Why does't the Gazaan government - the very same government that's been in power for the past 18 years - allow the civilians to shelter in the tunnels?

In fact, why do they fire missiles and shoot rpgs from civilian areas, thus rendering those areas legitimate military targets? And why do Palestinian parents rejoice when their children are 'martyred'? Could it be that the Palestinians actually want a high civillan casualty for that helps them in the PR war?

Break it down for me then.

🙄

I'm not sure I understand why you are eye rolling? Can you explain?

Just exasperated that you’re asking me ( on Mumsnet) to explain Middle East conflict and justify my position.

I asked you Unless of course you think there is a reason Israeli children should be protected where Palestinian children aren't? and you said 'It's complicated' and 'other forces are at play'. I wanted to know what the complications were in your mind that made you unable to give an answer to my question on the equality of children on two sides of a fence in the eyes of the West. If you didn't want to answer that's fine, you should have just said, passive aggressive emojiis aren't necessary.

Are you saying that the history of middle eastern conflict explains(in your mind) why Israeli children should be protected by the West from the same suffering that we are saying is OK for Palestinian children to endure?

@Buddysbunda ”Are you saying that the history of middle eastern conflict explains(in your mind) why Israeli children should be protected by the West from the same suffering that we are saying is OK for Palestinian children to endure?”

No - I’m not saying that

Yep

I've read through this thread and like many other threads goes a bit batshit with the 'I care more than you, no you don't, yes I do, no you don'tbecause x y z and a b c'. It's not a competition on who's suffering, I'm sure many are and others worried what might happen. It feels very primary school at times.

Exactly, it's not a competition. All children should be protected to the same extent, there is nothing at all 'complicated' about it. Either things are unacceptable or they aren't, caring and feelings don't come into it.

An old childhood friend/neighbour of mine (also on these boards), she recommended these two books to me which have been my holiday reading. Both Pulitzer winners. It provides some context to the murder and mayhem conducted by both sizes, and how we in the democratic west contribute. No answers there for me. but I learned a lot.

Black Flags: The Rise of ISIS
A Day in the Life of Abed Salama: A Palestine Story

I will definitely give this a read - thank you!

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/oct/12/a-day-in-the-life-of-abed-salama-a-palestine-story-by-nathan-thrall-review

That's an incredibly messed up post... suggesting that Palestinian parents don't have hopes and dreams for their kids, other than raising them to be martyrs. Do you realise that you are dehumanising them when you say this?

These countries are showing incredible restraint. When an assassination takes place in a third country, retaliation is expected

It's incredibly messed up that those 'mothers' celebrate martyrdom. That's what's messed up.

Why have you put mother's in inverted commas?

If you read the links to me it is obviously a way of expressing grief, there is nothing to suggest they're rejoicing the fact that their child is dead but a way of coping with their death by believing it is not in vain they are now with Allah. Don't think it helps anyone to continually dehumanise Palestinians