Over 210 massacred at Nuseirat refugee camp by IDF

[ConnieCounter]

https://www.thejournal.ie/israel-bombs-refugee-camp-200-dead-hamas-gaza-6402337-Jun2024/

The footage coming out of this this absolutely sickening. So many precious children killed. I've never seen anything like it. Poor innocent babies.

It's great that they managed to rescue 4 hostages (though it seems they killed others) but the human cost of that for Palestinians (and potentially other hostages) is absolutely obscene and not acceptable.

Absolutely tragic.

Yet another individual who prefers to personalise the debate instead of debating the issue.

Careful there with your accusations - where have I been islamophobic?

I see you don't seem to understand what the appeal to emotion fallacy point really is. That's quite typical.

Tell you what I eyeroll.....posts where people are only interested in personalising the debate, making Ad Hominem attacks and misrepresenting what they've said.

See? It's best to stick to the topic....isn't it?

I think it just means that if you're holding hostages illegally, you're putting yourself at grave risk. Whatever their reasons and whether they were coerced or not I don't think we know, but it's absolutely not legitimate to hold hostages and it is legitimate and expected that Israel would rescue them. You're not a non-combatant if you have kidnapped prisoners in your house.

Correct!

There's certainly a fair amount of information about that family we don't know. It may well be that the occupants of the house were themselves armed.

If so, that is considered as engaging in hostilities and civilian protection is lost as a result. They would then become legitimate targets.

It would be reasonable for the Operation Summer Seeds rescue team to see them as a threat. It appears they were dealt with very quickly as the heavy firefight from Hamas followed the rescue of Noa.

RPGs, machine guns, Hamas terrorists flooding in to the location and all kinds of mayhem.

Hostage rescue missions MOSTLY end in failure and pretty much never go without problems.

It's incredibly difficult to pull off.

Please would you link the report for the blow by blow details?

If a bunch of Palestinians rescued children held in military detention without charge, say 4 of them, but also killed 200 other civilians in the process - that wouldn't be OK. I'm not sure why the same doesn't apply here.

From the guardian

• Hamas has asserted that three hostages were killed in the Israeli rescue operation yesterday, including a US citizen. No evidence was provided and the Guardian could not independently verify the claims. Hamas has released a video showing three unidentifiable corpses with censor bars over their faces, and warned that conditions would worsen for the remaining captives after the attack.

that’s something I was reading about yesterday. That Hamas will take more precautions for those they still have in captivity not to be freed by idf.

There is also a risk that an organisation like Hamas will kill you if you refuse to keep a hostage at your house.

Really we have no idea what happened, but if these people were forced into this situation I feel incredibly sad for them. They could be victims, like the hostages, and if they are then they deserve the same empathy and respect, as do any family they may have left behind. We don’t know their names or their stories, but that doesn’t make them any less human or deserving of life.

I think it depends what you mean by OK. We don't know that 200 civilians were killed, or how, or by whom exactly. But it's certainly not 'ok' for uninvolved civilians to be killed in the sense that it's a tragic loss.

We know a lot of civilians were killed.

We also know that that outcome is inevitable when you bomb a refugee camp. It was also likely that hostages would be at risk of harm too, given that they knew they were in the area and bombed it anyway.

I really hope it's not true. Part of me thinks they'd release something more convincing if it were true, but they've made the claim a few times now.

You feel sorry for the captors based on an unsubstantiated claim that they were coerced into doing it by Hamas?? What a bizarre way of looking at it.

What a bizarre interpretation of my comments, which were about the dehumanising language applied to this potentially hypothetical situation by another poster. There has been a lot of hypothesising, and some comments that show a lack of empathy and recognition for the suffering of people in Gaza.

Did you miss the part where I qualify my feelings of sorrow by saying ‘if’?

Another comment from Twitter related with this

“Hamas now says 3 Israeli captives were killed in yesterday's operation (they also say, ominously, that no Israeli captives will be retrieved alive again except through a deal, hinting an order to liquidate captives on any fear of rescue attempts has been given).”

Why did the Palestinians not do more to fight Hamas Tactics before?

Do you mean when Palestine elected a unity government between two parties and Hamas killed or expelled members of the other party?

Or when Hamas killed its own citizens?

Or the fact there hasn't been an election for 18 years?

Or the fact that nearly half of Gazans are children?

Do you also go on threads about the Russian Ukraine war and ask why Russians haven't done more to fight Putin before? Or is it just brown people, and children, who get that demanded of them?

The problem with Palestinians = Hamas is that is ignores the fact that Hamas have killed Palestinians to get their own way.

Well no, it wouldn't be the same

They wouldn't be rescuing hostages who were kidnapped by terrorists

26-year-old Israeli woman Noa Argamani, one of the 4 hostages rescued from Gaza, was held captive by a journalist who worked for Al Jazeera

www.opindia.com/2024/06/al-jazeera-journalist-abdullah-al-jamal-held-israeli-woman-noa-argamani-captive-in-gaza/amp/

OpIndia is an Indian right-wing news website known for frequently publishing misinformation. Founded in December 2014, the website has published fake news and Islamophobic commentary on many occasions.

This has already been debunked.

@Februaryfeels but that's you putting value on life. Innocent child rescue does not equate to adult hostage life rescue.

It seems to me that this is putting a lot of faith in the name and official designation, “terrorist”, rather than looking at comparable acts in regard to their effects.

37,000 of whom many are women, children and old men, killed in 8 months, with a death toll that has risen to 274, with more than 700 others injured, at the Nuseirat refugee camp alone in the just the last 24 hours, is not bad going for non-terrorists. And that’s without the mass destruction of schools, hospitals. universities, homes and general infrastructure.

This record is a long way from being beaten by Palestinian terrorists, heinous and monstrous though they have been.

If it was your 12 year old daughter, arrested for throwing stones, you weren't allowed to court of support her, then she was put in military prison, raped, beaten, starved and denied medical treatment and you weren't allowed to visit, that would all be fine would it? Because the IDF aren't terrorists?

@MrsJackThornton My 12 year old wouldn't be throwing stones at armed soldiers so it's a moot point 🤷🏻‍♀️

But that's you assuming innocence of all Palestinian prisoners