Over 210 massacred at Nuseirat refugee camp by IDF

[ConnieCounter]

https://www.thejournal.ie/israel-bombs-refugee-camp-200-dead-hamas-gaza-6402337-Jun2024/

The footage coming out of this this absolutely sickening. So many precious children killed. I've never seen anything like it. Poor innocent babies.

It's great that they managed to rescue 4 hostages (though it seems they killed others) but the human cost of that for Palestinians (and potentially other hostages) is absolutely obscene and not acceptable.

I'd like to think that 'right-thinking people ' would understand the importance of interacting with empathy, consideration and recognition of the experiences and pain of others.

There is a time and a place for academic debate. And usually it should be prefaced with things like an expression of sympathy for people's losses and establishment of a shared understanding of the underpinnings of the debate.

According to whom?

👇

https://www.instagram.com/p/C7-RtLxK8si/?igsh=MWRnZmpsMzlqdTY5YQ==

Idf broke into a house and massacred a family yesterday according to Euro-med Human Rights Monitor.

DownNative · Today 12:09

Speaking of Hamas and their

Destructive terrorist death cult.

Isn’t incitement through reference to “Amalek”, called for from among the hundreds of deliberately inflammatory Jerusalem Day flag marchers only two days ago, and by Netanyahu at the start of this war, not part of a significant number of Israelis’ terroristic and genocidal impulses towards Palestinians?

On the news yesterday I even heard a retired female Israeli Colonel say that there was a race to the bottom between Sinwar and Netanyahu.

Amalek reference:

God commands King Saul in the first Book of Samuel* *to kill every person in Amalek, a rival nation to ancient Israel. “This is what the Lord Almighty says,” the prophet Samuel tells Saul. “‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”

There is an Israeli state- sanctioned group of slaughterers at large who can do their terroristic killing with loads of bombs.

Idf broke into a house and massacred a family yesterday according to Euro-med Human Rights Monitor

That was the house where Noa Argamani was being held. They were the ones holding her, and were killed during her rescue operation.

Maybe Israel could offer up 30000 of their own citizens as sacrifice to free the hostages that are worth thousands of lives.

That's a risk you take when you keep hostages in your house.

When the hostages were taken Hamas knew what would happen they planned to use them as shields they planned it all as a political media coup they have exactly what they hoped for. You don't kidnap people and run home thinking nobody will try to get them back.
Why did the Palestinians not do more to fight Hamas Tactics before?

Yes, that is true, but on the other hand it would seem it was not that a pack of Hamas fighters were guarding her

Apart from the Dr, two were women, one was an old man, one was a grandchild (not shot). I wonder why those soldiers couldn’t take them prisoner or tie them up till they got away? It is possible these people had been ok in their treatment of Noa within their family home setting, even if they were wrong to have been holding her.

Why have the Israelis continued to vote in a man who never wanted to work towards a 2SS with the Palestinians, and who indirectly supported Hamas?
It’s complicated?

The question was where could the hostages be put within Gaza other than where they were put (flats or tunnels) both of which can be bombed by Israel?

Yes, of course Hamas should not have taken hostages hoping to gain world attention/ swop them for Israeli held Palestinian prisoners.

It's also possible that those people were being coerced into allowing their home to be used like that. Hamas has form for blackmailing people into doing what they want - "commit this crime or we'll cut limbs off your relative", etc. We don't know, and we may never know the truth of why those people were there.

There was no mention of the hostages in the reports I saw so I didn't realise that. It makes sense that the IDF would kill all around them in that case.

I'm not saying I think they should have, but I see why they did.

Drs, women and old men can be dangerous too. No way of knowing if they would fight back or just let the hostages go so the plan was probably not to take prisoners in order to minimise the risk to the rescuers and hostages. Get in and out as quickly as possible.

It's shit for the family if they were coerced into holding the hostages but if that's the case it looks like they were screwed whatever happened.

ConnieCounter · Today 14:02
There was no mention of the hostages in the reports I saw so I didn't realise that. It makes sense that the IDF would kill all around them in that case.

I'm not saying I think they should have, but I see why they did.

Yes, I can see that too, even if in an ideal world they might have avoided it, and even if, as Scirroco suggests may possibly be the case, they were coerced by Hamas.

If you're keeping hostages it's a risk you take that someone will storm in and shoot you

So you think that they were 100% screwed no matter what happened?

If it is that they were coerced and they are innocent you can’t possibly know that they had no chance of one day escaping the situation. They were killed without a chance to find out because their lives are worthless to the Israeli government. They won’t get a chance to a fair trial and for anyone to ever really know what the situation was.

Would you talk so flippantly about the hostages? And if no then why not? Because they are from Israel? Because you identify with them? Because you know their names? Because you see them as actual human beings? Because you can understand their pain? Because you see the Palestinians that died as some abstract concept?

No reputable outlet has reported this yet, it appears to have come from a single tweet and been disseminated widely by pro Israeli accounts in order to justify what happened yesterday and counter the public reaction/disgust at the carnage. As usual with the internet the 48 hour rule should apply.

https://x.com/talhagin/status/1799722250200883632

*In fairness I will add to my post that if they were innocent and coerced then their lives were also worthless to Hamas. They would be victims twice over.

Unfortunately that is true. In fairness, if you're rescuing hostages, the motive of the captors is not the primary aim. If they were coerced into doing it, it's really tragic and awful though.

If they were the only deaths in the rescue, I think it could be fairly justified.

It's the other 200 odd deaths that probably can't be justified in any way.

This is the attitude I just don't understand.
Don't hold hostages then, the knew what they were doing - it just screams "you people are worth less"

No it does not - it’s saying that someone who was kidnapped from their home was held hostage against their will - we will never know if it was due to them supporting Hamas or through coercion

Well Hamas have just released a video claiming that 3 hostages were killed during the operation (including an American passport holder).

I hope that this isn't true. The death of all innocent civillians in this is tragic.