"Brilliant moment pro-Israel protesters get their own back on pro-Palestine mob"

[keenforhelp]

Pro-Israel supporters have taken to the streets after a cinema was vandalised with graffiti for planning to show a film about the Nova festival massacre at the hands of Hamas terrorists.

Pro-Palestine activists sprayed the Phoenix Cinema in East Finchley, London, with the message "say no to artwashing". In response, members of the Jewish community and campaigners against anti-Semitism are holding a demonstration outside the picturehouse.
Music could be heard blaring, including Elton John's I'm Still Standing, as smiling pro-Israel supporters waved the Israeli flag in a show of defiance.
A tiny band of pro-Palestine protesters are on the scene, however they are vastly outnumbered.

The volunteer, who wished to remain anonymous, told The Telegraph: “It’s just an outrage. People who are survivors of this massacre are coming here and they could have been confronted with red graffiti that honestly looked like blood.
“One of the people here knows someone who survived the massacre and she was coming tonight. Imagine the trauma if she saw this. People from the community have gone together to clean it up.
“It claimed that the film was artwashing - but it’s not. It’s footage from the festival. It shows what happened. There’s no agenda.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1902945/phoenix-cinema-finchley-israel-protest

Thats a very worrying statistic. The world seems to be becoming more and more polarised and extreme. It’s depressing

Israel regularly labels fighters who attack security forces in the occupied territories, "terrorists"

Similarly they mistranslate Arabic to make certain statements more sinister.

This is all part of the Hasbara.

recenly they translated "Sabaya" into "sex slave"

it has different meanings in the vernacular:
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6443330/

Well the context of the term “sabaya” was a term used by Hamas fighters about female Israeli hostages who had been brutalised and sexually assaulted and released hostages have given reports about sexual abuse so I’m not sure why you are spending time criticising the translation of the term.( edited to add - unless you’re implying there were no rapes or sexual abuse and the actions of Hamas are “legitimate resistance “

I think it is important for there to be accurate translation - words matter. There was recently a mistranslation of something Netanyahu said which caused a lot of distress, even when it was corrected subsequently.

In the context of the recently released video, the lecherous behaviour, tone and footage all indicated what those 'men' wanted, and the mistranslation just created more distress and more opportunity for people denying or minimising those horrible events to do so.

My last post will be deleted at my request as the subject is too upsetting which ever way one looks at it.

@ScrollingLeaves in that context, it refers to captives.

In Arabic, there are letters which sound similar to a non-Arabic-speaking listener but are different, such as 'saad' and 'seen'.

Sabaya is a transliteration but doesn't reflect the differences in pronunciation which affect meaning. Sabaya with a 'saad' usually refers to young women (late teens to 20). Sabaya with a 'seen' means (usually female) captives. (And no, that doesn't mean they arise from the same place, the root word is different, it's just that transliteration comes out similarly).

The word itself doesn't have an inherent sexual implication. However, we all know what often happens when women are captured by men. And the behaviour of the 'men' in that video, the injuries evident, all indicate that some of those 'men' look to have had clear ideas about what they wanted to do with their female captives.

As @ScrollingLeaves has withdrawn her post, I'll also ask for my response to be deleted if people want?

Thank you for explaining.

I felt my own post was not only about an upsetting subject, but my wording was too graphic, crude and upsetting. In my opinion your post about both the language, and the circumstances shown was far more sensitively expressed.

There's 2 sides to every argument and it takes compromise from both to make peace. Israel shouldn't have to do all of the giving up. I ask again what is worth more land or lives? That's what this comes down to and that is what God will judge on judgement day, when ever that maybe.

Personally, the only good thing to come out of this raging debate on MN is that I have learned to be a bit more careful and reflective in my posts. (Not that anyone would notice, I dare say!)

I've always thought the Taijitu completely captures the basic truths of everything you need to know, from evaporation/condensation to gender, fashions and political movements. Everything moves in cycles and nothing is ever stable, but is constantly seeking stability. I try to step back and accept that something is working its way out. I just wish no one was suffering, but human suffering seems to be built into the plan.

This jobby

Human suffering is not God's work. It is man made. Suggesting its all part of the plan provides a convenient way for the people responsible to deny accountability. God sees all and he will judge each and everyone of us when our time comes.
Until then we should all do what we can to prevent human suffering and preach peace and forgives where possible.

I would suggest giving up on the '48 claims as Arafat did and agreeing peace would be worth giving up on illegal conquests.

One the one hand the US and the West suggest Russian advance in Ukraine are illegal but on th eother ignores Israel's illegal land grabs.

The map is the issue. That there is even a discussion about a map other '67 is a massive concession on the order of Ukraine giving up Crimea.

The thousand people they killed were not IDF soldiers though. Some of them were kids, people were dragged from their homes. Its terrorism plain and simple.

Hamas should face the consequences of their crimes and so should anyone else who is guilty on any side of this conflict.

I say again what matters more land or lives? Compromise meet half way... all this talk of what about the land it's just land. If someone had a gun to your family and demanded your handbag. Would you let them shoot your family to keep the hand bag? Or would you give up the handbag? Children matter more than land... that said there needs to be much much Compromise on both sides.

By the way I completely agree on the double standards regarding the west. It shames me daily.

Children matter more than land...

They should but unfortunately they often don't 😓

Yes, and this is a Palestinian called Abu Zaydeh speaking to an Israeli reporter Shlomi Eldar from Haaretz April 5 2024:

I [writer] asked him whether he understood the jubilant shouts of many Palestinians when they saw the captives who were brought triumphantly into Gaza.

Not for a moment did he try to defend their reaction. "You can write it in capital letters," he said. "From my point of view, it's a disgrace." He raised his voice so I would not miss his determination. "I, as a Palestinian, say to you in a loud voice: It is a disgrace. I am ashamed that they murdered and abducted people – children, women, old people. I am ashamed. That is not heroism. Absolutely not heroism."

In the first two days of the war, he recalls, he heard even Hamas figures say that the civilians should be released. "If there was a little sense, the Israelis could have got back the women, the elderly and the children for free. I tell you this with certainty. From knowledge. But Israel thought that pressure would lead to the release of the captives. They didn't understand what Hamas is.

"But again I say, and I am not afraid to say it: To kill civilians and to abduct women, old people and children is not heroism.

(The whole article can be found in archive ph under this headline:
Hamas Actually Believed It Would Conquer Israel. In Preparation, It Divided the Country Into Cantons)

The proportion of soldiers to civilians murdered by Hamas was relatively low.

Of the 1200 killed by Hamas on Oct 7
there were 318 service members:

*The most recent death toll from the military had 318 service members killed during the attack itself (37 more have been killed since the IDF launched its ground offensive in Gaza), with police citing another 59 dead. Such figures include armed fighters who tackled the terrorists head-on, but also unarmed service members in non-combat roles who were killed inside their bases, sometimes in their beds.^
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-revises-death-toll-from-oct-7-hamas-assault-dropping-it-from-1400-to-1200/

The number of soldiers as opposed to civilians taken captive by Hamas Oct 7 seems more difficult to find. Perhaps someone else knows.

Do people include young woman like Naama Levy among the soldiers?

I don’t know. Did the IDF consider them to be soldiers?

Talking down the crime with numbers doesn't make it any better. Taking 1 innocent life is terrorism. They attacked a festival, they knew full well innocent people were going to die.

They are terrorists no excuses, and excusing the behaviour really doesn't help the palatinian cause if I'm honest. For me I'm with those woman and kids getting killed for someone else's crime but that doesn't come hand In hand with supporting terrorism. The two arnt mutually exclusive. You can do one without the other, if you choose to....

And when he says "some hamas fighters wanted their release" what he meant by that was those of them with a scrap of humanity left in them. They didn't get released so clearly the ones with none left won that argument. They killed kids, actual kids can you imagine the depravity required to look a child in the eye and kill them? I can't imagine stooping that low to be honest, even if that is what my enemy was doing to mine. Those children are completely innocent 100% innocent and should still be here.

The killing only ends when the most depraved of people want it to or when those with humanity demand it! We should not support this conflict. We should not support the leaders of either side.

I was not talking down the crime. My intention was the opposite. They killed many, many more civilians than soldiers. That’s what the statistics I quoted were showing.