New Hamas video of hostages

[Muthaofcats]

The new Hamas video released today of the female hostages selected as the ones they planned to get pregnant was so sickening and I wish I hadn’t seen it.

however, I am also wondering WHY it has not been more widely picked up and broadcast? I don’t understand the silence from the bleeding left; why don’t they see stuff like this and not just feel desperate and sick about those poor poor girls and their families who must be beyond devastated.

Watching the men in those videos helps to counter balance the idea of Israel as the aggressor. I wish more would see it and reflect or even just place those women of equal value to those in Gaza.

How is the world so perverse right now that this warrants a shrug from so many? Or worse, is viewed as justified !?

But the majority of people who want a ceasefire and want the Israeli government and IDF to stop killing civilians... don't support Hamas.

Are you suggesting it's supporting terrorism for those of us with friends, family and colleagues in Gaza to object to them dying needlessly? For us to want investigations into what appear to be war crimes? For us to want an end to some of worst acts we've ever seen?

I have worked as an emergency responder and doctor in some very unpleasant settings, including conflicts and disasters. What my colleagues in Gaza are seeing now is worse than anything I've seen before, in terms of the scale and severity. What has happened to my colleagues in Gaza is terrible. It is one of the most dangerous places in the world for people to try to deliver healthcare or aid. Is it supporting terrorism to say that needs to stop and an alternative solution needs to be found?

@blackcherryconserve But the vast majority are civilians, given that Gaza's population is more than 50% children and Gaza is one of the most densely populated areas on the planet, and Israel is bombing densely populated areas indiscrimnately. Israel has worked for decades to wipe Palestine off the map. Does that mean that tens of thousands of Israeli civilians should be slaughtered for their governments crimes? Many of whom voted for this government, unlike Gazans who havent been allowed an election since 2006? I certainly don't think so... but maybe you do? Or does your twisted logic only work one way?

Ideally, one day:
Terrorism will never happen
Wars will never happen

Not sure what the chances of that are... so, assuming humanity does not change its essential stupidity, maybe wars will be fought differently.

Wouldn't it be great if AI and drones were refined to the point where you could input intelligence info and know that the true baddies* would be weeded out and dealt with.

Until then, Israel are in an impossible situation. Yes, everyone wants a ceasefire, but where does that leave them? The threat to their very existence could not be clearer. I understand why people want them to take a step back and plan a meticulously detailed approach with great care not to hurt anyone, but in the meantime, where does that leave them? A sitting target for more of the same, since Hamas has promised to repeat 7 October until the job or eradicating them is done.

*Of course, "true baddies" is entirely cultural. Which is why we will never see world peace.

It's insulting to suggest that not wanting 35000 death in 6 months with 15000 being small children and baby's is antisemitic. People are tired of it tbh. I understand some Jewish people are getting genuine antisemitism from this, after all they cannot change the deeds and decisions of the isreali government but you cannot defend the indefensible and deaths in these numbers with half being children is indefensible.

Isrealli citizens have my sympathy hamas are terrorists there's no doubt about that but laying seige to a nation and the way in which this war is being conducted is not acceptable. Other country's are having to air drop essential human needs because its not being allowed by land....

The battle to end hamas is understandable the lack of preservation of lives is not.

People against the way this war is being waged do not deserve to be labelled antisemitic and using it to defend Isrealli government decisions, is taking away its true meaning. People are so outraged by the sheer loss of human life they are now willing to be labeled. Its a real shame the word is being used wrongly because it is a subject that should remain at the top of the agenda to ensure the safety of jewish people all over the world.

deaths in these numbers with half being children is indefensible

Perhaps swap "indefensible" for "unavoidable"? Given the population density, and Hamas's tactics?

Unless someone can explain a practical solution that safeguards Israel without harming anyone in Gaza except very obvious* Hamas agents?

*subject to debate

If the majority do not support Hamas as you claim, I suggest they take it up with Hamas then, because that is where the blame lies, in particular, using their own citizens as human shields. Hamas need to leave Israel alone and learn to live in peace.

And here is a video in which a son of Hamas absolutely exposes Hamas and their intention to wipe out the Jews. It’s not as if Hamas have made it a secret, and that they see their Palestinian human shields as ‘martyrs’.

@AdamRyan Thank you for your tempered and rational response to my question

I'm not an expert in international law so had no idea that there would be a legal assumption that all dead were classed as civilians. Good to know, though

There are tactics used which are resulting in unnecessary civilian casualties and particularly child casualties.

The use of large 'dumb bombs' with large impact areas, causing devastation significantly beyond the initial target.

"Daddy's Home". Identify a target, track him home, blow up his house (and surrounding area, potentially).

Snipers targeting children and the elderly, who are clearly presenting no threat.

The withholding of aid and/or the lack of facilitation of aid disproportionately affects children and the vulnerable. A physically capable man will survive and function without food far longer than a child, who has limited physiological reserve and limited ability to seek alternative sources of food if their main sources are removed.

The destruction of healthcare services means children and the vulnerable are again disproportionately affected. Children are more likely than adult men to die in the absence of medical services.

It is within the capabilities of some of the leading military and intelligence bodies of the modern world, to carry out precise strikes (we've seen it recently), to 'remove' individuals with relatively few casualties, etc. Even if a full-scale assault were deemed necessary, this should have been done without the repeated violations of international law that we've seen.

@Sixpence39 this has and is being extensively discussed on other threads in this section. It's okay to discuss the plight of teen and young women hostages also.

'Gazans haven't been allowed an election since 2006' and why is that, do you think?
It's because after they elected Hamas ordinary civilians have had to toe the line behind Hamas. Israel is a democracy who have regular elections. I do not support the current Israeli government but at least Israelis of all denominations and religions have a voice. Civilians in Gaza do not have and while Hamas rules Gaza there is no likelihood of that changing.

@MrsAllsorts so, are you retracting your assertion that we're 'pro-terrorist' if we have those concerns? Because that is a very serious allegation to make.

Scirocco if someone is marching in London as they are doing most weekends, carrying placards that are antisemitic and calling for the abolishment of the state of Israel, that person is promoting terrorism.

Until then, Israel are in an impossible situation. Yes, everyone wants a ceasefire, but where does that leave them?

It leaves them in a situation where they and Palestine have to sit down, make concessions and make peace. The time to stop caring about winning and revenge was a many 1000s of innocent lives ago For the safety and security of both Israelis and Palestinians. I understand that the Israeli government does not want a 2 state solution but if Israel truly want long term peace there is no other solution. Occupation hasn't worked, controlling the borders hasn't worked, killing 10s of 1000s of people hasn't worked, having 700,000 settlers hasn't worked. None of what they have done has 'protected their existence'. It has just led to bloodshed and this time around isolation and disdain.

A ceasefire and a two state solution is in everyone's best interests. The last temporary ceasefire was the most successful Israel have been at getting hostages home safe. It's time to start looking forward, to start looking towards peace and security for everybody. There is no peace to be found for Israelis or Palestinians in occupation and collective punishment.

How would you deal with Hamas?

Are they governing?

@Scirocco In my dreams, Gazans would be helping Israel achieve their objectives more "cleanly" by helping to flush out Hamas and dispose of them (by "removing individuals" as you put it). After all, Gazans are also clearly the victims of Hamas. I wonder if the reasons this hasn't happened are also the reasons that explain a more scattershot approach (setting aside budget issues), i.e. there is no easy separation to be made because of Hamas's deep infiltration into all aspects of society?

I'm only thinking out loud here - if you know people in Gaza, how do they see it? Have they spent a lifetime trying to get away from Hamas, only to now find themselves trapped in this appalling situation?

@PearlKoala do you really think it is possible to sit down with Hamas and agree peaceful concessions? even if they agreed them, would you trust them to stick by their promises?

The government of Palestine would be governing Palestine clearly. Right now as you know the government of Palestine is the PA.

How do you deal with Hamas so they make way for this?

Very good question. The British Government for one doesn't negotiate with terrorists so why would we expect the Israeli Government to do so?

Do you really think it is possible to bomb Hamas out of existence? There has been a circle of violence for decades, it doesn't work. That much is clear for all to see. A peace deal with a 2 state solution is a much safer bet for everyone. Occupation hasn't worked. Locking them all up in Gaza hasn't worked. 'Outposts' haven't worked. What else can Israel try at this point that wouldn't be even more brutal than they have tried already and hasn't already failed?

Hamas have agreed to a 2 state solution.

@ChickyBricky there was no great love for Hamas. I've previously posted about the emotional and psychological complexities of living under blockade and being dependent upon Hamas for survival. Those will be even more complicated now.

Many people were also in Gaza not by choice but by necessity, or because their family were there, or to provide healthcare or other services to people in need. They're all dying there. And people on here and elsewhere call them terrorists all the same.

Hamas don't want a two state solution and they don't want a ceasefire. You have to be the most naive of people to think it is possible for them to sit down with Israel and talk rationally in such terms. Their stated aim and commitment is the destruction of Israel and the death of every Jewish person (Israeli or not) on the planet. They don't even hide it. When people start rabbiting on about 'ceasefires' and two state solutions they are seemingly blind to the fact that it's simply not in the world view of Hamas. They are operating to a completely set of 'values'.

And where are they when it’s in place?

Have they agreed to step down?

And if they are still active somewhere how do you know they’ll stop their aims

Hamas has never agreed to the two state solution. Its raison d'être is the elimination of Israel and Jewish people. There have been plenty of Israelis and Palestinians working behind the scenes trying to achieve peace including many of the kibbutzniks massacred on 7 October. How do you deal with terrorists who only want your elimination?

Have they? Or have they agreed to creating a Palestinian state without recognising Israel and without giving up on the idea of the right to return?