Thank you to Ireland, Norway and Spain

[Scirocco]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-69047220

At a time when justice, empathy and integrity seem to be in short supply, a little light in the darkness.

Link to the BBC Live page covering statements announcing that the countries will recognise a Palestinian state on 28th May.

Being recognised as a state essentially means a country gains official sovereignty, or supreme authority, over its own territory. It also means they have a right to self defence.
When recognised, Palestine will have the same rights in the UN as any other states. At the moment, they are classed as a “non-member observer state”. They can't vote.
You can understand why the Israeli government is less than thrilled by this.

I think this quote from the Norwegian prime minister covers explains why.

“In the midst of a war, with tens of thousands killed and injured, we must keep alive the only alternative that offers a political solution for Israelis and Palestinians alike: Two states, living side by side, in peace and security,” Norway's Prime Minister Jonas Gahr Store said.
“There will be no peace in the Middle East without a two-state solution. There can be no two-state solution without a Palestinian state. In other words, a Palestinian state is a prerequisite for achieving peace in the Middle East,” Store added.

It doesn't actively change anything but it does put pressure on other countries like the UK and the US to follow suit and the more countries that do this the more pressure there is on Israel to allow a 2 state solution, something Netanyahu has said he will never agree to.

That's what I asked at 10.37 up thread ^ and so far I haven't had an answer !

Russia recognised Palestine as a State in 1988 and I didn't feel the earth move 🙄

I know you think this is some kind of 'gotcha', but it really isn't. The territory is contested, but that's hardly a unique situation.

"Two states, living side by side, in peace and security,”

A fine aim, but Hamas, designated by many nations as a terrorist organization, has been leading armed resistance against Israel for decades and also controls one of the two major political parties in Palestine.
Though popular with some segments of Palestinian society, it remains highly divisive in Palestine and has often been at odds with more mainstream Palestinian politicians.

Apparently a Hamas spokesperson told Al Jazeera, the Oct 7 attacks were a decisive “message” to other Arab countries that they should not normalize ties with Israel.

@PearlKoala

"It doesn't actively change anything but it does put pressure on other countries like the UK and the US to follow suit and the more countries that do this the more pressure there is on Israel to allow a 2 state solution, something Netanyahu has said he will never agree to."

But both the UK and the US already support a two state solution.

I am starting to think that this announcement by Spain, Norway and Ireland is less about genuinely trying to achieve a two state solution or actively changing anything and more about each of those governments trying to achieve political point scoring / votes for their own benefit

Ironically the idea "Two states, living side by side, in peace and security,” is the one thing Hamas and the Netanyahu Govt have in common in that they are both against it.

I’m with you on this - no one asked me. I don’t support this. And as others have said, where is the state of Palestine on a map?

Does this also mean we will be opening our doors to refugees from Palestine? Again, that’s a no from me.

Some of the posters on here have argued that everyone in Ireland is united on this issue so it’s interesting to hear that’s not the case.

Please don't assume you know what I think.

Instead of trying mind-reading, perhaps you could give me examples of other "contested territory"?

What utopia do you live in where the government of the day consults you personally about every decision they make? Honestly.

It's no secret that the Irish public are overwhelming in support of Palestine. You may not like it but that is the reality.

Its just political. And the USA and the UK will never recognise it and more importantly, nor will Israel unless the people of Gaza's Government can prove that there is no wish to destroy Israel .

All posturing and largely meaningless tbh.

For heaven's sake. Think!

trying to achieve political point scoring / votes for their own benefit
What would be the benefit to them?

Yes it is symbolic and right now won't change anything but it is demonstrating support for a Palestinian State and the more countries that recognise it as such the better position Palestine is in when there are 2 state negotiations. Hamas have not and won't be around forever, what state do you know loses it's statehood because of what party is in government. Hamas is not Palestine

All posturing and largely meaningless tbh.

Maybe to you, but not meaningless to the people of Palestine

https://x.com/RichardHanania/status/1792272654755586219 I hope this link works. Listen to Salman Rushdie's chilling thoughts.

@Dulra

"trying to achieve political point scoring / votes for their own benefit
What would be the benefit to them?"

Given that there is strong political support for the Palestinian cause in each of those countries then the benefit to each of those Govts is more votes but at the same time making no difference to the reality on the ground in Gaza. In short it is political grandstanding for votes.

In short it is political grandstanding for votes.

It just isn't, and to suggest it is, is pretty insulting to the Irish government and the people of Palestine. Considering every political party supports it how is it meant to win anyone any votes? We have enough domestic issues to occupy us with and influence who how we vote for. Most voters aren't as naïve as that

That isn't an answer.

How can a state be "recognised" when it's not clear where it actually is?

👏👏

Until 1999 Ireland contested sovereignty over the territory of Northern Ireland.
There were terrorist groups using violence to try to reclaim/claim it.
Ireland was still recognised as a country.

That is a major issue atm

I don't understand what you are saying?

The Irish Free State came into being in 1922.

Northern Ireland was created as a separate legal entity on 3 May 1921, under the Government of Ireland Act 1920.

You cannot have a two state solution (the most widely recognised and accepted process likely to lead to longer term stability in the region) without two states.

Recognising the right to exist of two states - a state of Israel and a state of Palestine - is therefore necessary for that.

Personally, I am pleased today that more countries have stood up to say that the recognise the right of Palestinians to exist in a Palestinian state.

Ireland just jumped a couple of points up my list of countries to move to once the UK gets too unsafe and unpleasant for people like me.

The Israeli ambassador to Ireland has not been recalled.

'I have instructed the immediate recall of Israel’s ambassadors to Ireland and Norway for consultations in light of these countries' decisions to recognize a Palestinian state.'

But, you are not alone in your lack of ability to understand a sentence in English. RTE, the Irish Times etc are all similarly unable to understand english.

As a Jew, nothing I would like better then to see a peaceful Palestinian state, however right now that is probably not going to happen. And declaring one now just looks like the Palestinians are being rewarded for their charming actions on October 7.

also this https://www.theguardian.com/books/article/2024/may/20/salman-rushdie-says-a-palestinian-state-formed-today-would-be-taliban-like

Feeling very fragile and vulnarable right now as a Jew in Ireland.