Syria

[mids2019]

Has Syria been forgotten and who is to blame for civilian deaths in this region. It is Assad or rebel groups?

(Its a conflict in the middle East with huge civilian casualties but doesn't involve Israel so I guess this thread will for a death)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_civil_war#:~:text=The%20Syrian%20civil%20war%20(Arabic,sponsored%20and%20non%2Dstate%20actors.

It's horrific and there are definitely people in Syria who will want these people brought to justice, many have already fled according to report on C4 news last night. What comes next and how those involved and complicit in Assad's brutal regime are dealt with will need to satisfy those impacted that justice has been done and retribution achieved. Very delicate time

@OchaLove

Well that is for MN to decide not you.

If you have a genuine concern then raise it with MN rather than accusing others on an open forum of being bots.

By the way I'm not a bot but I have been accused of this in the past.

We all know who he is and who he was. The point being he has now apparently turned over a new leaf and been accepted as an interim prime minister in Syria. The international community are cautiously accepting this. Who does it serve not to?

Yes, this Al-Jolani guy seems very fishy. The collective effort in the media to portray him as a suitable leader doesn't make any sense with his background.

This was in response to PKK/YPG terror attack on a state-run aerospace company in Ankara, killing 5 (4 of them company engineers) and injuring 22 civilians. Turkish military bombed the military bases, not targeting any civilian structures. France is one of the countries that always supported PKK terror organization so I'm not sure if their claim of civilian deaths on the YPG side is reliable.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/23/europe/turkey-ankara-aerospace-attack-intl/index.html

Their response at 05:42 is not to you though, but to a different post made at 04:55.

It's a predominantly Muslim country. Different rules apply.

@OchaLove

"France is one of the countries that always supported PKK terror organization so I'm not sure if their claim of civilian deaths on the YPG side is reliable."

I can completely see that when attacking military targets whether they are YPG, ISIS, Hezbollah or Hamas that civilian casualties are unfortunately inevitable. But that doesn't mean that they are intentionally- indeed from a military perspective it is counterproductive to actively target civilians.

But to deny that Turkey has unintentionally killed innocent Kurdish civilians in their attacks on the YPG is simply not credible just as it's not credible to deny that Israel has unintentionally killed innocent Gazan civilians in their attacks on Hamas.

As for the French news article being biased how about instead:

www.newarab.com/news/turkish-drone-strike-kills-11-civilians-north-syria-monitor?amp

amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/24/turkey-airstrikes-syria-iraq-attack-defence-firm-hq-ankara-kurdish-militant-pkk

@OctoberOctopus

"It's a predominantly Muslim country. Different rules apply"

Thanks for clarifying.

Presumably the same rules for why Turkey is allowed to occupy parts of Syria for security purposes without any condemnation.

Yes, I didn't notice this, this explains and looks like was wrong to make any suggestions about the account. I apologize to @User37482. I tried to delete my message but couldn't.

Not really actually. We don't feel like we're favored in any way, especially not by the western media that likes to make PKK/YPG look like as freedom fighters despite PKK literally bombed many normalization efforts.

As usual, Times cartoonist Morten Morland pretty much nails it. Poor Syria, let’s hope they can confound everyone and manage a transition to an inclusive society.

@OchaLove

"Not really actually. We don't feel like we're favored in any way, especially not by the western media that likes to make PKK/YPG look like as freedom fighters despite PKK literally bombed many normalization efforts."

Well the PKK has been designated a terrorist organisation by the UK since 2001.

But I agree that some in the West misguidedly view them as "freedom fighters " despite their open terrorist attacks, just like some in the West misguidedly view Hamas as "freedom fighters" despite their open terrorist attacks.

I guess on that basis you can sympathise somewhat with the Israeli efforts (just like Turkey) to eliminate these terrorists even though it sadly, unintentionally and inevitably results in innocent civilian casualties.

Or is it different somehow because it's Israel?

I understand how you feel. However the situation of Palestinians and situation of Kurds in Turkey seem different even before October 7th. Kurds are part of the society, they are not subjected to different rules, or they don't have any restrictions to travel, to purchase an asset etc. There were times when their language was banned or their culture was oppressed but these conditions do not exist anymore. I hope we can see a similar resolution within Israel with Palestinians. If I seem biased towards Israel, it's not because it is a specific country but because of the current situation and the death toll of the civilians and destruction of their facilities.

It is.

Turkey is allowed to occupy parts of Syria for security purposes without any condemnation.

People are not objecting to Israel occupying parts of Syria for security reasons as does Turkey. Turkey has not expanded on that since Assad fell Israel has. That's what people are criticising

Israel are temporarily in the buffer zone for security reasons. Criticism on the hate to Israel thread as usual. I don't frequent that thread much, just leave them to it. So clearly they are critical of bring in buffer zone for security reasons. However, not so with Turkey.

Within Israel, Israeli Arabs have the same rights as everyone else. Are you talking about West Bank or Gaza or both?

Do you mean the "this is the reality of what Israel is doing" thread which documents, well, the reality of what Israel is doing in Gaza?

It's not a "hate to Israel" thread. It's the truth.

As I said Turkey hasn't expanded since Assad was toppled, there would be the same criticism if they had. You can claim it's a unique trend on mumsnet to criticise this but I have heard plenty of questions on it and criticism of it in msm too.

It is always hard when a new regime takes power to decide to what extent those who supported the old regime should be executed or left alone. Syria has a lot of minorities and I think the Alawite sect of Islam was in charge including Assad but not all Alawites are bad. I wonder if those newly in charge in Syria can bring themselves to improve legal rights of women - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Syria

Anyone destroying Assad's chemical weapons whether Israel, US, Turkey or anyone else is doing the world a favour.

Turkish backed forces are attacking Kurdish groups in Syria though

And the Iranian ayatollah seems so scared of the Turks he can't even name them as the "other neighbour" that toppled Assad

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/12/11/iran-khamenei-says-al-assad-ouster-us-israel-plot-blames-neighbour

😂 it's a version of truth. Hence, buffer zone for security is seen as land grabbing forever 🙄

"😂 it's a version of truth. Hence, buffer zone for security is seen as land grabbing forever 🙄"

The difference is when Turkey does it then it is a "buffer zone for security" but when Israel does it then it's a "land grab ".

Personally I see both scenarios as a legitimate "buffer zones for security " but of course others will have a different view on Israel for reasons that they don't really want to admit!

I'm talking about the thread.