Syria

[mids2019]

Has Syria been forgotten and who is to blame for civilian deaths in this region. It is Assad or rebel groups?

(Its a conflict in the middle East with huge civilian casualties but doesn't involve Israel so I guess this thread will for a death)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_civil_war#:~:text=The%20Syrian%20civil%20war%20(Arabic,sponsored%20and%20non%2Dstate%20actors.

@SharonEllis thank you for making my point so well for me ☺️

@Xenia

"I don't think most of us mind that most of the UK military are male for obvious reasons"

I agree that most of us don't mind nor the fact that the British military is predominantly white working class males with to the right of centre views.

However it is this same white working class males with to the right of centre views that are dismissed as racist and uneducated by the predominantly female liberal city dwellers.

The same liberals that would suffer most under any restrictions on freedom of speech etc.

So my question is other than being ordered to, why would predominantly white working class males want to potentially lay down their lives in defence of a section of society that at best mocks them and at worst despises them.

I honestly don't know what argument you are trying to make or who your questions are directed at, but, whether you intend it or not your posts suggest you dislike female liberal city dwellers (who knew this was a specific homogeneous group) and appear to be sympathetic with white working class (potentially bnp sympathetic) males.

I haven’t read all of this thread so you may have a valid point but I really think the last comment is unfair “white working class (potentially bnp sympathetic) males”
Why link white working class men with BNP?

I'm not the poster you asked but 1dayatatime was sympathising about the 'right wing, white working class males' who people may perceive as being racist having to protect liberal city dwelling females. I'm presuming that's where the potentially BNP sympathetic comes from.

Ok - thank you!

@Dulra

"I honestly don't know what argument you are trying to make or who your questions are directed at"

The point is age old and best shown in Kiplings Poem "Tommy Atkins".

Namely the contradiction that the section of society that is most dismissive of those in uniform are those that would suffer most through the loss of their freedoms.

You lost me completely on the BNP reference?

@MothToAnInferno

"I'm not the poster you asked but 1dayatatime was sympathising about the 'right wing, white working class males' who people may perceive as being racist having to protect liberal city dwelling females."

It's interesting how my original point has been twisted to remove the military reference.

The British military is predominantly white working class males who given the nature of their job would be more likely to be right of centre a point I think most people would agree on.

In the event of a conflict those least likely to be doing any fighting would be females and those of a more liberal political position.

The irony is that the same white working class males who are expected to potentially lose their lives to protect those that are most likely to dismiss them as uneducated, thick, racist etc .

Note: no sympathy for any particular political view, no references to BNP or Reform or any other political party. Just pointing out the irony of this in the same way Kipling did with "Tommy".

@Dulra

Given your criticism of the British military on previous posts in relation to Ireland and your expectation that the same British military would step in to defend your democratic freedoms I would have thought you would understand the irony of this position better than most.

Anyway all going a bit off thread on the topic of Syria.

The key point being is that the West should get involved in Syria, shouldn't have got involved in either Libya, Iraq or for that matter Ukraine.

I don't think most people think being 'right of centre' would make someone a thick racist as you seem to be making out. In Ireland our government is centre right and wouldn't be regarded as being racist(the thick bit well that would depend on who you ask but it wouldn't be to do with them being centre right), lots of people think that they are far too lax when it comes to issues like immigration.

I really don't see the connections you are forming. It seems lfrom your posts that you have very black white views of left and right and think that everybody else feels the same as you but I don't think that that is rooted in reality, it's more a social media thing this left goes in this box and right goes in this box and never the two shall meet.

@Daftasabroom you've responded to a few pp with the same words, what do you mean can you expand?

Your point was incomprehensible. China, Brazil & India do generally have a policy of no direct involvement except in issues very close to home like Sri Lanka. Russia's foreign policy on the other hand is built on intervention. The cases of their intervention are not 'exceptions'.

and your expectation that the same British military would step in to defend your democratic freedoms
Where have I suggested that? I am in Ireland and would never expect the British army to protect my freedoms thanks. They have been very involved in taking them away in the past so that very idea is quite offensive tbh.

@1dayatatime I made the reference to bnp because you were talking about white working class males being called racist I think racists are called racist not all white working class males so I wrongly assumed you were referring to bnp supporters.

I also see nothing but pride and support from British people for their armed forces so I am confused why you think they are viewed so negatively by some. I think most people know the soldiers are following their orders and duty and not linked to the politics where the decisions are made.

There were a lot of "obvious exception" replies above which seem a bit strange. Another example of where Russia was heavily involved was Afghanistan (before the West moved in). I hope that is not an "obvious exception" yet again.....

The UK armed forces are amazingly good and we are very lucky to have them. They are made up of a large range of points of view whether someone trained at Sandhurst or entered aged 16 somewhere else. They will defend us to the death whether we are Tory or Labour voters without fear or favour and are loyal to the Government of the day no matter what the views of other people in the population are.

I support our armed forces but also people's rights to criticise them - that is the freedom for which our armed forces fight.

I would like them to put a bit more work into the very large drones flying over US air bases in the UK at the moment if they can, ideally shoot one down so we can see what is going on.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce9glmxrvpzo

Back to Syria, it is a very difficult situation but huge possibility for freedom and improvement in human rights. If you punish everyone who kept a job and took a bribe during the previous regime you probably have no working country so they will need to pick carefully how retribution there is and how much letting it go in a new fairer regime.

The major potential headache for the west is to have an Islamist government who gradually push their ideological agenda. Would we be in a position of having a Taliban like society where women have their rights absolutely crushed.

The media seem to be in a rush to show celebratory Syrians but once the story moves on and gradually we have the oppression seen in a lot of Islamist societies will the media come back?

Whilst the West has limited influence on what happens next, Israel and Turkey will have a massive impact and neither of them are keen on having a Taliban-style regime next door. Turkey wants it's Syrian refugee population to go home and Israel wants security. Turkey's current battle against the Kurds and Israel's occupation of Golan Heights means they will both be involved for a long time to come.

Did the middle east ever have straightforward politics?

Did anywhere?
You must have noticed the divisions in countries worldwide.

I am hopeful because Syria is such a religiously mixed country compared eg to Afghanistan but we shall see. Eg the FT showed a photograph of a talk a mosque with a caption about people being present but in fact of course it was only men present, not a single woman as it was given in a mosque, so already women being written out of things.

Nothing to lose so here is my dream for Syria :
Al Golani decides truth and reconciliation rather than vengeance is the way forward. Delegations from South Africa and Northern Ireland volunteer to help in the process and he accepts
He remembers that it says somewhere in the Coran “ there is no coercion in Islam” and allows Christian’s, Yazidis, Shiites and others to practice their religion, as long as they don’t proselytise
He makes it clear to Israel he is not interested in nurturing any anti Zionist terrorism- and Israel stops the hostilities
Money comes in from international donors, he invests in education ( equally for men and women) , health, birth control and the law and strengthens the Syrian middle class.
He creates a civil service which cracks down hard on corruption
What are the chances?!

Oh an Bashar al Assad is extradited to The Hague and faces trial at the international court of justice.

Molly yes there are 10'000 held by the Kurds, but many were not "caught" or killed back when the civil war was at its height. Some joined other "rebel" groups.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/prisons-holding-isis-members-in-syria-a-breeding-ground-for-radicalization-officials-say

For some unknown reason instead of fully eliminating the threat for Syrian civilians and the wider region at the time, 1000s of fighters under the Astana agreement were allowed to move Idlib with their families.

The special presidential envoy for the Global Coalition to Defeat ISIS at the U.S. Department of State Bret McGurk stated that over 40'000 fighters from 110 countries had fought in Syria with Isis.

Meanwhile, Israel has once again exploited the current instability in Syria to continue their illegal settlement expansions.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz6lgln128xo

Israel needs to stop this shit, they always, ALWAYS take it too far. Bombing to the point that it registered 3.0 on the richter scale. Have the Syrians not been through enough?

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/israel-drops-earthquake-bomb-syria-082953307.html