Syria

[mids2019]

Has Syria been forgotten and who is to blame for civilian deaths in this region. It is Assad or rebel groups?

(Its a conflict in the middle East with huge civilian casualties but doesn't involve Israel so I guess this thread will for a death)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_civil_war#:~:text=The%20Syrian%20civil%20war%20(Arabic,sponsored%20and%20non%2Dstate%20actors.

Interesting piece - doesn't undermine my point at all though.

Doesn't undermine it but doesn't fully endorse it either. As with everything nothing is ever black and white and the very suggestion that the resolutions are effectively meaningless because the US will always veto them anyway can explain why there are such a high number against Israel. I think it is far too simplistic and too easy to suggest anti-semitism is behind it. It also implies that Israel has done nothing wrong and is not deserving of the resolutions which is simply not true.

As usual you are turning my point into the point you want it to be not the point I was making because it suits you. I did not say the article fully endorsed my point (you posted it, not me). My point was criticising Israel can be antisemitic and I gave an example. I did not say that criticising Israel was always antisemitic, that all UN resolutions against Israel are antisemitic or that the example I gave was the only 'proof' that a fixation on Israel can be evidence of antisemitism.

You and I know the reason why!

Ok that explains your point better thanks.

So how come there are local counsellors and prospective Parliamentary candidates who use their election manifesto as being for Gaza?
You may think the average Mumsnetter doesn't engage over the Middle East but the thousands of people who continue to make central London a no-go place for Jews most weekends don't bear out your argument.
Meanwhile my two DDs are scared for my DGSs in case anyone in their school finds out they are of Jewish heritage. Neither DD wears her Star of David in public any longer either.
This smacks of life in Germany in the 1930s.

I'm so sorry and it so hideous that people don't listen & hear what you're saying.

Syria's news- out of the Assad chip ban and into the IS fire? Yet another country being held by anti-civilian, anti-women thugs.
Anyone else find this terrifying? Turkish fighters in their numbers too - that's very close to home...
Anyone got any reason to feel positive about this? 😩🙏

I think currently the Assad reaction to the capture of Syria's cities is going to be interesting as he has to minimise civilian casualties when taking back Aleppo or Irisk the ire of the UN.

Bizarrely to you may have a common interest between the US and Russia to maintain the current regime as an Islamist terror group taking over a state doesnt appeal to anyone .......

An Islamist terror group taking over sadly has huge appeal to a lot of people. And I have absolutely no idea why Assad would start caring about civilian casualties now when he hasn't given a shit about that or the UN up until now.

British companies don't supply arms to either side in the Syrian conflict.

Many UK charities have done amazing work to house and support Syrian refugees.

Just because this crisis has passed you by in the last few years doesn't mean nobody else has paid attention.

I think what is obvious is that it doesn't get the same level of attention as in threads on MN or marches in London. Whether people admit it or not, there is an anti Israel sentiment that drives this.

Syria lives or Yemenis or others don't gather the same attention as Gaza or have their very own aid charity. I think many people do realise this.

@OctoberOctopus Syria lives or Yemenis or others don't gather the same attention as Gaza or have their very own aid charity. I think many people do realise this.

Agree but then do they have the same propaganda machine as Palestine/Gaza/Hamas? The wider vested interests in Gaza eg. Islamic State etc must be responsible for the global sympathy drive

the only democracy in the ME.
A very flawed democracy, ranking as having one of the highest level of inequality, amongst other democracies.
https://www.idea.int/democracytracker/country/israel

No we don't sell 'huge amounts of arms' to them.
"The government has taken the decision that the UK will suspend arms export licences to Israel for use in military operations in Gaza' dated 2 Sept 2024.

Yes we have history and realised after WW2 that Jewish people needed a safe home. They were forced from many countries including a massive reduction in numbers of Jewish people from Middle Eastern countries. Where do think they should live? They couldn't live in the various countries in the middle east, their origins are the middle east not Europe as many people seem to incorrectly think when spouting rubbish about Israel.

Many people seem to have Israel bad and so despite many thousands more dying elsewhere they ignore them and focus on Israel bad.

Hang on, Do we only care about people if British arms are involved? With such a tiny arms (components) contribution to the conflict in Israel/Gaza why so much concern? I thought it was because we were humanitarians? As already discussed on this zombie thread, we all know about the charities involved in supporting Syrian refugees.

Israel are doing many bad things and have for a very long time. People really aren't ignoring what is happening elsewhere, perhaps you just don't know about what is happening elsewhere because your focus is on Israel?

The EU have sanctions in place to target the Assad regime and its supporters, as well as sectors of the economy from which the regime profits. In 2011 their trade agreement was suspended for trade in crude oil, petroleum products, gold, precious metals and diamonds. The situation is constantly monitored and sanctions updated as needed. Almost 4.5million Syrians nearly a fifth of the pre war population have made their way to Europe. The EU have delivered 35 billion in aid to Syria since 2012 to try and support stabilisation and resilience in Syria and the surrounding countries.

It's laughable to suggest that the situation in other countries is ignored. Lots of people would just like the situation with Israel to be treated like the situation on other countries and have trade agreements suspended and sanctions put in place.

I was hoping to find a Syria thread that doesn’t get taken over by discussion of other countries and conflicts. How about it?

Hang on, Do we only care about people if British arms are involved?
Don't think that's what they were implying, it was highlighting that of course people care just the response is different because UK government do not support the Syrian regime so people don't need to protest, there are sanctions in place, housing Syrian refugees, funding humanitarian aid and not selling them arms.

Well done you for lobbing in a random criticism of Israel in a thread on Syria! Nothing to see here.....

Don't they?

During the decade 2012-2022, the UK sold the Syrian government 23 limited and 26 unlimited arms export licenses. What is the total value of those exports in GBP? The entire value of military arms licenses exported from the United Kingdom to Syria during the last decade was £1,3 million."

The question about ignoring Syria and obsessing about Gaza has been around for a long time. This article from 2014 before the current conflict in Gaza.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/07/obsessing-about-gaza-ignoring-syria-and-most-everything-else/374898/

Israel is a democracy within a sea of some pretty awful states. I never understood by 9/11 got more prominence than killing of about 1m Tutsis killed by hutus in Rwanda - they are all lives but the interest will always depend on how people are affected. Thankfully the UK supports Israel as do I and the Syrian and Hamas and ISIS and even Saudis are not good regimes/groups at all - utterly dreadful at times. However the West has tended to want the stability of Assad on a better the devil you know basis. It has not been great for Libya for example to be destabilised.

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/12/2/it-is-hypocritical-to-protest-israel-but-be-silent-on-syria-and-yemen

A more recent article 2023 suggests over 500,000 deaths ignored in Syria but then a small number on gaza protested. Suggested anti semitism and backed up suggestion by rise in anti semitism since Oct 7th

We all know why.