Terrible but not surprised - Jewish community under threat

[mids2019]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx0331xxd7xo

It appears Jews are not safe in the UK at all.

Can we seriously look at the impact of anti semitism now?

You've got to be joking. So you are saying grievance leads to extremism. It didn't after WW2, The Allies and Germany etc laid down arms and peace was sought. No terrorist organisations running around murdering people.

Stop making excuses for shitty disgusting terrorists.

I could also add grievance is no excuse for attacking people in the UK and US because they are Jewish. Stop enabling them and making excuses for scum.

Frankly it's disgusting that children are not safe in our state schools. The trouble is as can be seen all over these threads anti semitism is rife. The labour party tried hard to stamp it out, the country needs to try harder wherever it is seen, heard etc

Did I ever suggest the extremists were reasonable in their views? Of course they are not - but shouldn’t stop us from understanding how their views develop. The Prevent program is meant to do this and reduce risk.

I did one of the 'training' exercises as lip-service to Prevent. It was a computer based multiple choice whose content was as useful as a chocolate teapot.

I've seen footage today of an Israeli tourist being attacked and beaten in Belgium after he removed an anti-Israel sticker. Apparently that justified a vicious beating that continued when he was on the ground.

Yup, beat up and broke the jaw of a man for removing an anti-Israel sticker. And then in Sweden there was a shooting near the Israeli embassy, the third attempt at violently targeting the embassy this week !

There you go @Polka83

Perhaps teach less hate to the predominantly extremist islamist terrorist organisations might help more. Don't see Jewish terrorists, Catholic terrorists , Buddhist terrorists, or other persuasions currently in the UK. There have been in the past of course. There is an extremist Islamic terrorist problem globally presently and everyone needs to speak out against it.

According to you their views develop because they have 'grievances ' .... lots of people have grievances... some petty and some major, eg someone killed someone they loved, however, most don't go out and become terrorist murderers. That's takes a special kind of scum.

Ah the beating was due to someone having a 'grievance".

MN posters spout the most ridiculous things. Should we laugh or cry at the reasons given for murderous terrorists. 🙄

I’m going to defend @Polka83 here - she didn’t mean it like that. She was talking about grievances against leadership not every day Jews, it perhaps didn’t come across like that but further posts made it clear that’s what she meant. She doesn’t at all think Hamas were justified in any way their October 7 attack and IMO she’s made that clear.

As in she meant a push factor of extremism is grievances that leaders are not doing enough or aren’t doing the right thing so extremists get it into their head “I shall be the ‘hero’ on this score if so-and-so can’t be” - it’s not right fair or just but Polka is right in that it IS a researched factor. That doesn’t make anything that extremists do justifiable but PREVENT use this as a way to try and stop extremists in their track before they hit the point of no return.

@quantumbutterfly

I wonder if you did go to the authorities with an example of someone who is virulently anti Semitic and making threats of physical violence would you be taken seriously?

is it the case how that anti Semitic sentiment is so widespread that police will be unwilling to act as they would be seen as being politically impartial? The police may hold back looking at potential Islamic terrorism as it will be looked on as extremely sensitive from a community relations point of view.

the current atmosphere makes identification of radicalisation hard as the authorities have to decide whether the frequent attendee at pro Palestine marches who holds up anti Jew signs is just wanting downpour hate verbally or will this expand to physical violence. We could get radicalisation in plain sight.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester_Arena_bombing

People have become reconciled based on Muslim children deaths in other ways and one could argue this war is much more visible including civilian casualties so there is fear out there I think.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_2005_London_bombings

And again Israel was a partial motivation for these guys back in the day so when we have stopped terrorist attacks on Jews we need to be both relieved but extremely concerned that Islamic terrorism has been a historical threat in our society. I think this why there is particular concern about extreme pro Palestinian supporters who ever into ideology of global jihad and see October 7th as a legitimate military exercise.

Thank you YaMuvva. Labour and Tories have a long way to go in gaining trust of ordinary Muslim voters - so what impact will the mistrust of politicians have on those susceptible to more hold more extreme views?
I am sure that individual Mosques and Synagogues may be doing some cross community work.
Prevent does some work with “civil society groups” which builds interfaith links.

https://secondwave.org.uk/documents/Prevent%20Success%20Stories%20V3.0.pdf

This podcast was about building links - with Ed Kessler - a Jewish interfaith thinker. The work seems challenging but necessary.

https://alastaircampbell.org/2024/04/68-israel-gaza-how-the-conflict-divided-britain-and-the-us-with-ed-kessler/

@mids2019
I won't pretend to know the mindset of a jihadi.

Anyone who was not a liberal at 20 years of age had no heart, while anyone who was still a liberal at 40 had no head.Winston S. Churchill

The majority of Islamist attacks in the UK (I expect a few are thwarted without publicity) are by young, passionate, or otherwise mentally impressionable people. They care, they are easy to manipulate.

@Quantumbutterfly

The majority of Islamist attacks in the UK (I expect a few are thwarted without publicity) are by young, passionate, or otherwise mentally impressionable people. They care, they are easy to manipulate

If only it was that straight forward.

Age old story, they young sent by the old men.

I personally think that when people can’t trust their official leaders and systems to protect them and solve their issues, and it feels like nobody cares, they start to look for different ways to solve their problems. This isn’t always a bad thing, but it leaves a space for potentially vulnerable and marginalised people to be preyed upon by those who say the right things and seem to have all the answers, but may have ulterior motives. The state then has less control, which is probably the opposite of what they wanted to achieve, which probably makes them nervous, which probably means they put in more measures and says things that further alienate people. Which is why I think that this has to be about more than control.

Unfortunately more depressing examples were witnessed at the march today. Children being taught to hate, in the UK, by their parents. More than one example. It's made me feel so sad.

https://x.com/alexrubner/status/1791894741904159172

I see Mumsnet deleted my message. I'm not sure why but I apologise if I've caused any offence as it was tt my intention.
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I honestly care for lives on both sides (I'm not Jewish).*

@Polka
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I can only guess they took longer because they agree with Israel's goal of getting rid of Hamas. The problem is that to do that too many people are being killed. So whilst I believe that Israel had a right to defend itself and to get rid of Hamas I think the cost in human lives is too much too bare.

I guess that's the bigger picture that the politicians have been considering.

Let's hope that somehow we can get to a ceasefire. I look at those poor people especially the children and I wonder what sort of life awaits them. I imagine what I would do if this was my child
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I read your deleted message @Bicyclethief
I didn’t report it, but if you couldn’t see the problem with it- you are part of the problem of the mistrust between communities.

Now what question was it you wanted me to answer? What can politicians do? Given that you seem to value a ceasefire- perhaps the leader of the opposition party calling for one sooner might have helped?

https://bylinetimes.com/2024/03/31/keir-starmers-condemnation-of-terror-in-gaza-is-a-step-forward-but-just-the-beginning/

I also don't know the mindset of a Jihadi. I wouldn't say it comes from 'care' though. Having read details of previous terrorist attacks by islamists, they are warped and filled with hatred. They are pathetic individuals. Filled with a strange purpose which they seem to believe will bring the endless rewards in an assumed afterlife. As if any God worth serving would want that in any afterlife.

May they rot. They have been taught that hatred, either during childhood or radicalised later.