How have we come to a state where the police confront someone for being overtly Jewish?

[mids2019]

Just how?

I think at best this inept policing at worst vile anti semitism.

I suppose it is now in the open that central London has become effectively a no go area for Jews given the potential for abuse from hate marchers.

Can't we just stop these marches so Jews can go about their business?

The argument, repeatedly made, that there are Jews at the march therefore antisemitism can't be an issue should be equally applied by the same posters to the St George's day march yesterday? If there was a black person on that march then there can't be any issues with racism?

I'm saying that people should stop pretending that there are no issues with antisemitism on the marches.

Nobody is saying that there's no bad faith individuals using the march against the genocide of the Palestinian people in Gaza to espouse their hateful antisemitic views but surely its those individuals that need to be condemned for their hateful rhetoric and not the entire protest march with legitimate aims?

I've not condemned the whole march at all anywhere, and I don't want to see marches banned. But the argument has been made repeatedly, including on these threads, that there wasn't any issue with Gideon Falter being 'visibly Jewish' because there are lots of Jews who attend the marches.

Despite him being called Nazi and scum, despite him being threatened. Despite the police saying that him being visibly Jewish meant they couldn't guarantee his safety. The fact that there are Jews on the marches is supposed to override all of that.

Talking about banning, I'm shocked to see that the police tried to ban the Iranian guy from attending the protests with his Hamas are Terrorists banner, because protestors keep attacking him. That's not the solution.

Well I’m certainly not making the point that there are no anti-semites at the marches, clearly that isn’t true. Where the St George’s day events in protest of something? I’m not sure I get the connection, but I haven’t been looking at that news item tbf

It was an outing for Tommy Robinson and co, the sort of people who use the English flag not out of patriotism, but out of nationalism.

If GF wasn't spoiling for an argument, why did he have a rather burly security guard with him nearly all the time ?
The guy in shades, in most of the shots is apparently a guard employed by a security agency SQR, which is run by two ex Mossad agents. One of that particular guard's most recent jobs was protecting President Herzog on his 2023 visit to London in December. He's also provided protection to Tzipi Hotovely.
GF also claimed that he'd been to the synagogue before his appearance on the street. I believe that his first public appearance was around 11.30. When i used to go to shul, you'd be lucky to get out before half past 12.
Sorry GF, but in my opinion, your story of "innocence" is just that, a story. You were spoiling for an argument to further your own agenda, which is that the marches should be stopped.

As I said in an earlier post:

*Having watched the longer clip, this guy absolutely turned up with the intent of provoking some kind of incident and then filming it.

BUT, and it's a big but, if all he had to do to provoke an incident was walk against the flow of the protest whilst being 'openly Jewish', that's a pretty strong indicator that the protests aren't as innocent as they claim to be.*

No doubt at all that he was looking for a reaction.

The point being made is that he didn't have to look very hard, did he?

@ColonelDax he probably knew turning up with a burly security guard and a camera, intent on getting some negative attention on film, might just get him noticed.

Im sure there's trouble makers at these marches, same as at any march. But i keep reading about jewish people attending these marches with good intentions eg. Supporting what the march is about, and nothing seems to happen, mainly because they are just protesting the same as everyone else. GF turned up to cause a scene and it sounded like it backfired on him.

Here in Glasgow we have the orange order marching every July. And you cannot cross the street whilst they are walking down it. Now this is totally sectarian. If someone turned up in a celtic top with a big burly minder and a camera it would be with the intention of causing trouble and not much else. Thankfully no one has been stupid enough to do that i dont think.

Have you seen the video of the Jewish people who attend the marches?! Turning up festooned in Palestine flags isn't exactly the same as just 'being present' is it?

In the same way that if an Asian bloke turned up to a Tommy Robinson march carrying a sign that says 'ban Islam', he would be welcomed with open arms, it doesn't mean they aren't racists though does it?

And are you seriously comparing turning up to an Orange Order march in a Celtic top to just being openly Jewish at an anti-Israel cough sorry 'pro-Palestine' march?! I think the two are qualitatively very different, personally. 🙄

Of course they are different but the intention is the same. To cause trouble, to get a reaction, to wind people up. And to get it on camera.
You obviously see these marches in a different light to me. I see them as the only way people can show how angry and unhappy they are about the almost 35000 people killed in Gaza, about the systematic oppression of people and the continuing violence they somehow live under.

How you see them is up to you.

PS. I hope your cough gets better

Well clearly it's non-observant Jews, secular Jews, invisible Jews and Jews who loudly condemn Israel who are deemed acceptable. Racist have always played that game.

Sorry to be clear, the intention of checks notes being Jewish in London is to 'cause trouble'?

Jews who don't drape themselves in Palestine flags should just keep off the streets of central London 1 day in every 7 then? Of course they shouldn't and I don't think you really believe that.

I didn't say that did I? You are trying very hard to put words in my mouth. You shouldn't bother. You clearly have a view that is the polar opposite to mine. There's no point continuing this discussion any further really.
Have a nice day.

I'm rephrasing what you have said and reading it back to you to show you how unreasonable your position is.

Nobody 'needs' to wear a Celtic shirt and walk through an Orange Order march, it's a clearly avoidable provocation.

However many practicing Jews really 'need' to walk through areas of London while being visibly identifiable as Jewish. It's not a provocation in of itself.

Yes the person in question wanted to prove a point, but his point is a valid one tbh. If Jews can't walk through a protest without being attacked, then the protest is by definition unlawful and anti Semitic, regardless of the fact that not every single person participating in it joins in on the attack.

Luckily GF needed to go for that 2km walk, with his body guard and a camera crew or else there wouldn't have been a story, at least he didn't have an agenda and it was just bad luck

It really is lucky, as it's now brought this issue to widespread attention and proven that they aren't peaceful protests, that Jews are right to be afraid and that the Met Police know this full well but have hidden the fact for fear of being portrayed as 'ists' or 'phobes'.

So yes you're right, it was very lucky.

The march seems significantly more peaceful than the IDF

Imagine crossing the road in Gaza is a lot scarier!

That’s not to say I don’t empathise with the Jewish people who genuinely feel scared by these marches.

Are there any non politically motivated groups who are working to help make those people who are intimidated feel more welcome and reassured?

And coming up with sensible solutions that don’t involve trying to paint every single person at the march as being antisemitic?

Well thankfully the Prime Minister does recognise the issue and has told the Met very clearly that the marches need to be ‘policed not managed’. Which they’re obviously capable of doing as they showed at the St George’s day event yesterday.

it’ll be interesting to see what happens at the London mayor elections given how obvious it is that we have two-tier policing in London now.

Thank goodness that GF was not taking a walk today. "No officer I want to walk in front of that galloping horse so that everyone can see the issue".

Or yesterday...imagine your own bias thingy...

You're saying that the marches are as obviously dangerous as a rampaging horse?

Given how much Tommy Robinson wanted to join the March against antisemitism in November (where he got arrested), I’m sure GF would have been fine had he turned up looking ‘openly Jewish’.
This Sikh man and his horse seem to be having a lovely time https://twitter.com/OliLondonTV/status/1782767815151218924

TR only got arrested because GF demanded it.

Worth a google.

The Sikh man and his horse were celebrating St George's Day in Plymouth.

I don't think these men were on the Tommy Robinson march.