This is the reality of what Israel is doing (part 3)

[Eyesopenwideawake]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/15/babies-children-gaza-famine

Continuation of the previous thread.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/conflict-in-the-middle-east/5018751-this-is-the-reality-of-what-israel-is-doing-part-2?page=39&reply=134623626

There’s ample evidence that Netanyahu and others deliberately kept Hamas in power - in their interest to not see a two state solution.

So we could say their lack of past action was there for this very same extreme military action or in my own view of what I am seeing, hearing and reading as genocide towards the Palestinians.

You describe the actions of Hamas as anti-women and anti-liberal culture. I have never supported Hamas as I do not see them as the Palestinian people and I have never supported the events of October as for me it is an act of terrorism…..but I am not seeing this current Israeli governments actions as anything to be applauded……. They do not apologise for or deny the fact that settlements will continue - this will not lead to a two state solution - they are quite openly saying no two state solution - outright no peace.
They do no apologies for or deny the fact that detain of people without charge will carry on….

Terrorist rarely achieve their own objectives and they generally aim to disrupt the status quo. If you live in Israel, you will know someone directly affected by the 7/10 attacks and it will impact on you very strongly. But the actual number of deaths is actually a fraction of the 6,000 deaths inflicted on the Palestinians since 2007. These numbers pale in comparison to the numbers involved in other current active conflicts- Yemen, Sudan. Hamas would struggle to kill 7000 Israelis so it clearly decided to match numbers with depravity. It was definitely calculated to be shocking.

Israel has resisted the implementation of the Oslo accords. There have been no meaningful concessions in relation to self determination, demilitarisation or boundaries. Left wing Israelis sat in pavement cafes, protected by the US Iron dome and other defence systems patting themselves on the back for their charitable activities ( dictated by their religion anyway) and open mindedness. They congratulated themselves on being the only democracy in the Middle East and celebrated how happy Israeli Arabs were as if the alternative was not being governed by a terrorist death cult.Meanwhile, their right wing government actively promoted the Hamas administration in the ensuing vacuum.

This vacuum was not sustainable, something was probably going to give. The most difficult thing to accept is that any peace partner will have hands tainted with the blood of the 7/10 victims. It is awful but it’s what’s happened in Northern Ireland, South Africa and Rwanda.

@ScrollingLeaves Where there has been a whole court case brought against Israel with numerous lawyers arguing about whether or not what is happening to Gazans is genocide, or whether or not there is a risk of genocide, there is evidently no absolute clarity that there is no possibility of genocide taking place, let alone a reason to impute that a poster who thinks there is this possibility, is repeating a lie.

I would disagree with this.

If this was a 'lower' British Court SA would be possibly regarded as a "Vexous Litigant".

IMO SA wants the ICJ to micromanage the Gaza issue.

I would go as far as to say that IMO SA is military ally of Hamas and therefore has an ulterior motive.
Just look at the timing.
On 11 may 2024 just after SA had submitted another request for more constraints on Israel they hosted a delegation from Hamas.

I don't know what was discussed but it seems obvious to me that SA is aligning itself with a terrorist organisation

https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2024/05/israel-accuses-south-africa-aligning-hamas-distorting-facts-icj-case

There are quite a few countries supporting South Africa with their ICJ case and it wouldn't have got past the initial hearing if there was no case to answer.

I would go as far as to say that IMO SA is military ally of Hamas and therefore has an ulterior motive.
That's a pretty bold statement. Where's the evidence for it?

@Dulra There are quite a few countries supporting South Africa with their ICJ case and it wouldn't have got past the initial hearing if there was no case to answer.

This is not correct.

The standard of proof initially is quite low.

https://cilj.co.uk/2021/03/05/a-clear-standard-of-proof-in-disputes-before-the-icj-are-we-there-yet/

See this paragraph - " Standard of proof is usually understood in conjunction with the concept of burden of proof, both of which are products of fact-focused adjudication in both domestic and international legal systems. While the latter plays an allocative role by placing the responsibility to prove a fact on someone, the former defines the extent of proof that has to be provided. The burden of proving the existence of a fact is on the party that asserts the fact.

@Dulra I would go as far as to say that IMO SA is military ally of Hamas and therefore has an ulterior motive.
That's a pretty bold statement. Where's the evidence for it?

See this article;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-67257862

I don't see anything in that article to suggest they're a military ally

I am aware of what the burden of proof means and I am aware that this case will roll on for years but there are other countries intervening so it is not just SA vs Israel. Whatever you think about SA and their motives is slightly irrelevant, there's a case to prove or there's not.

Irish governments statement on it.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/4e9a7-statement-by-the-tanaiste-on-the-south-africa-vs-israel-case-at-the-international-court-of-justice/

A mob of Israeli settlers attacked a Palestinian truck driver in the occupied West Bank assuming he was delivering aid to Gaza. They beat him and destroyed the cargo.

Despicable behaviour.

www.instagram.com/reel/C7C0d_CR3oN/?igsh=MWJ5aXhucnJ2OWw5eA==

Stand on the right side of history indeed https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4LwwssMd2e/?igsh=MXhlcnE2ZHI3OW81bQ==

More videos of what idf have been doing in gaza recorded and posted by themselves

https://x.com/ytirawi/status/1791770589985640847

Presently, most of the West Bank is administered by Israel though 42% of it is under varying degrees of autonomous rule by the Fatah-run Palestinian Authority.

So what is the Palestinian Authority doing about this apparent lawlessness.?

Israeli social media influencers opinion

idf are present at the time of this happening as it can be seen on the video. Shouldn’t they help the person that is being attacked ? When they want they do get involved… why not when the driver was being punched and kicked ?

Apparent lawlessness, bless your.

Wowsy for your victim blaming.

I can just imagine some of the posters on this threat responding to this….

“Why don’t the Palestinians just leave? Their presence is making the Israeli’s attack them - if they just disappeared of the face of the earth there would be no attacks and threats.”

Shame on those Palestinians, they dare exist on their own land - I mean the cheek of them!

Good to see protests in Israel wanting peace like the protests in London and the protests across the world in universities
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C38NoCXNpsZ/?igsh=a2tsNjJlc200ZTYw

Once again let’s preempt some posters comments:
These Jews aren’t real jews
These Jews are antisemitic
It is not an occupation
This protester hasn’t mentioned Hamas
This protester hasn’t mentioned October
Why is he mentioning Israel and Palestine with the words peace and security together

Lovely to see common sense from
the Irish: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C38NoCXNpsZ/?igsh=a2tsNjJlc200ZTYw

Again let’s preempt some posters views:
Ireland wasn’t occupied
The British were great in Ireland
The Irish caused problems
Why is he saying illegal occupation
Why’s he not mentioning Hamas
Why’s he not mentioning October
Why can’t people see the benefits of colonialism

"It tried to match numbers with depravity".

It is notable that the 7th October attack is likely to have been staged to disrupt the formation of peaceful relations between Israel and neighbours such as Saudi Arabia.

I believe the full intention of Hamas was to plunge the region into war.

I think if anything that the hope of Hamas was that Israel would respond with ferocity and in kind. I was afraid there would be escalations of violence, possibly on both sides.

I note that there are videos posted of IDF soldiers playing with children's toys and breaking china etc. That does sound improper, but presumably people shocked by this have not read the accounts of what happened on October 7.

He thinks these hideous thoughts are ones he should share with the world. Says a lot. Please update us on whether any action is taken against him….

"“It is for the Court to determine whether genocide is being committed"

I think it’s possible to be shocked by both things. That doesn’t mean one is equal to the other in how disturbing it is. But for people who can’t imagine doing either of these things, then both are shocking. It doesn’t mean they are ignorant to the events of October 7th.

The clip I saw was in Israel? Was there another clip linked to Ireland

Sorry, here is the clip
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4p8FJjAjtC/?igsh=MW0xa2MxNXVuZnd0Yg==

@PeasfullPerson Actually, I was more surprised that there were not earlier reports of vengeful fury more directly informing the behaviour of the Israelis. So surprised the other way than you seem to have been.

It is pretty easy to imagine that ,going to war after an extraordinary outrage in which over 1000 people died, actual soldiers might be angry, even if one has never been in an army, or committed violence oneself.