This is the reality of what Israel is doing (part 3)

[Eyesopenwideawake]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/15/babies-children-gaza-famine

Continuation of the previous thread.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/conflict-in-the-middle-east/5018751-this-is-the-reality-of-what-israel-is-doing-part-2?page=39&reply=134623626

What about thank you for doing that for me?

I will when you have fully responded to what I asked?

You still haven't shown where the lawyer plays the clip to the court. He is quoting from the clip but as far as I can see isn't showing it to anyone

And what has this got to do with the previous clip of someone getting shot/killed? When was that shown to the court?

You keep quoting 'evidence' but can't seem to clarify it.

You make allegations but can't seem to back them up.

You'll be waiting a long time then

From Al-Monitor 16th May 2024

The ICJ accepted South Africa’s first demand for an inquiry in January and is currently investigating Israel’s military conduct in Gaza. The investigation could take several more months. Responding to the second demand, the court issued provisional measures ordering Israel to uphold the Genocide Convention and to investigate cases of alleged incitement of genocide against Palestinians. Still, the court declined South Africa’s request to order Israel to stop its military operation immediately.
Responding to South Africa's second, similar request for provisional measures last March, the court again called on Israel to respect the convention, but declined to order Israel to stop its military operation.

I didn't say that this particular video was presented today at the ICJ, so I don't know where you got that from?
The SA did present other videos.

I do know some OSINT accounts that check these type of videos, Telegram is full of them as you are allowed to publish them uncensored. There are groups focused on doing that, with video uploaded by soldiers and video recovered from soldiers.

I am not on Twitter so not sure if this is the video mentioned but from 1hr43mins into the hearing this video is shared where the IDF are enthused about their peaceful diplomatic mission in Rafah
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vwGt98yVQw0

Those interested in the case today m.youtube.com/watch?v=vwGt98yVQw0 Lawyer Tembeka Ngcukaitobi’smain point: Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich opened said aim of the Rafah invasion was “total annihilation.” The reason why this supports the already strong claim of genocide is that the Palestinians need a place to rebuild and as the Israeli government is so hell bent on destroying all Palestinian land (not the ones they have stolen and settled on of course!) a future and a people is looking less and less likely.

Lawyer Blinne Ni Ghralaigh main point:infrastructure is destroyed and there are mass graves, carry on with Rafah plans and the same actions will be repeated.
She said that the IDF deems evacuated areas as “extermination zones,” where soldiers are ordered to kill any remaining people.

Israel will present its side tomorrow.

Regardless of the judgement Israel will carry on with its actions. So not sure why they are even there to present an argument. Even if the court says this is a genocide Israel will carry on. The USA and the UK will say something along the lines of “yeah but …..no but…..” and enable Israel’s actions.

It proves that the video posted earlier, of the person bending over a dead person being shot in cold blood, was originally submitted by someone who is trusted by the court, which has used other similar IDF videos he has found as evidence. So, it is possible, and even likely, that the video is what he says it is.

Let’s say it is not of
an IDF shooting though.

All that means is one less IDF shooting out of hundreds shown quite clearly, or reported, on trusted news programmes over the last seven months.

Profession Shlaim gives an interesting view of Jewish History. In essence I think we can see that the hate and antisemitism of the west over centuries is a price that the Palestinians have ended up paying.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4DrLsNrDSg/?igsh=MTlzYTgzYXZ3cmtkaA==

I saw Bassem Youssef in London in April.
He is someone who talks in a very simple and logical way and from the get go has been clear about the actions of this Israeli government.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3oHKoqOV0z/?igsh=MXI2Znh0YzF2ODV6eQ==

@DomPom47 the Israeli government is so hell bent on destroying all Palestinian land (not the ones they have stolen and settled on of course!) a future and a people is looking less and less likely.

You are misinformed.

Yoav Gallant, yesterday gave a surprising statement yesterday declaring that he would not continue in office were Israel to govern the Gaza Strip after the war.

Gallant called instead for Palestinian control of the Strip with international assistance and hit out at Prime Minister Netanyahu for not announcing a plan for the ‘day after’.
“We must dismantle Hamas’ governing capabilities in Gaza,” Gallant said. “The key to this goal is military action, and the establishment of a governing alternative in Gaza.
In the absence of such an alternative, only two negative options remain: Hamas’ rule in Gaza, or Israeli military rule in Gaza.”

“The meaning of indecision is choosing one of the negative options - it would erode our military achievements, lessen the pressure on Hamas, and sabotage the chances of achieving a framework for the release of hostages.”
“Since October, I have been raising this issue consistently in the Cabinet, and have received no response. The end of the military campaign must come together with political action. The ‘day after Hamas’ will only be achieved with Palestinian entities taking control of Gaza, accompanied by international actors, establishing a governing alternative to Hamas’ rule. This, above all, is an interest of the State of Israel.”
“Unfortunately, this issue was not raised for debate and worse, an alternative was not raised in its replacement… I must reiterate - I will not agree to the establishment of Israeli military rule in Gaza. Israel must not establish [its own] civilian rule in Gaza.”
“I call on Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to make a decision and declare that Israel will not establish civilian control over the Gaza strip, that Israel will not establish military governance in the Gaza strip, and that a governing alternative to Hamas in the Gaza strip will be raised immediately.”

Gallant’s statement drew an instant public rebuttal from the prime minister, as well as angry denunciations from far-right cabinet colleagues, some of whom demanded that Netanyahu fire Gallant.
Gallant was supported by fellow War Cabinet Minister Gantz and his National Unity Party.

In an interview with US network CNBC yesterday, Netanyahu did address a post-Hamas Gaza Strip, saying
“What do you need then to reconstruct Gaza to have a different future so Gaza doesn’t pose a threat to Israel anymore? You need to have three things.
One, sustained demilitarisation and that I think, can only be done by Israel intervening when it can when it sees another terrorist resurgence.
The second thing you need is a civilian administration that is not Hamas and not beholden to the destruction of Israel.
I think that could be done with the assistance of Arab countries and the international community.
And the third thing you need is reconstruction. That I think can be done with the help of important players in the international community… But you’ve got to clear Gaza of Hamas…
What I’d like to see is a non-Hamas civilian administration with an Israeli military responsibility, overall military responsibility.”

I am aware of what Gallant said, he will not last long unless the US decide to change things and get rid of Netanyahu and have Gallant in power.

What I’d like to see is a non fascist Israeli government who follows international law, who gives up their settlements or at the very least doesn’t build anymore, who doesn’t detain children and adults without charge, who doesn’t bomb hospitals and schools …… but if we look at the facts as they are we know this will not happen. Let’s be realists. Hamas’ actions whether terrorist or the logical next steps of an oppressed people have worked to this Israeli governments aims and objectives. They have no respect for human rights unless those humans are Israelis. They have no respect for international law unless it’s laws with grey areas where they can use it to kill as many Palestinians as possible whether from bombs or starvation…..

Thank you.
This thread should be retitled..the speculation of what Israel is doing.

The conduct of the IDF, the actions and expressed intentions of the Israeli government and the history of what has happened previously means that I really don't think the IDF or Israeli government can be trusted to be responsible for a vulnerable, traumatised Palestinian population.

A civilian administration overseen or loomed over by the military power of its previous occupier is not an independent state or territory. It's still occupied.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-69020237.amp

Yes I think it would be highly inappropriate, and damaging to the peace and prosperity of both states. I can’t see peace being achieved until both have security and equal rights.

re: your response to Tripeandonions post about Gallant’s reasonable stance in regard to Gaza, suggesting that people are wrong to say
‘Israel’ wants the annihilation of and the Jewish resettlement of Gaza, because it is only a right wing faction which can be discounted wants this.

You seem to imply that
Tripeandonions’s post gives you the facts at last, where the rest of the thread is otherwise only full of speculation:

First, another poster on this thread, yesterday, on this very thread of ‘speculation’, brought up the news of what Gallant had said, adding that change for the better might be coming.

Secondly, it is just as much ‘speculation’ as you call it to suggest the right wing faction (Netanyahu, Ben-Givr and others) will not prevail as it is to suggest they are having a huge and negative influence on the course of this war.

Here is yesterday’s mention regarding Gallant:

ScrollingLeaves · Yesterday 13:01

“PeasfullPerson” · 15/05/2024 21:32
“Change can’t come soon enough.”

‘Yoav Gallant, who Benjamin Netanyahu tried to fire in 2023, says he will not allow Israeli rule of Gaza.’
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/15/israel-war-cabinet-split-looms-as-defence-minister-demands-plan-for-post-war-gaza

Let us hope it is change in the direction of Gallant’s view though, and not just a change leading to Gallant being got rid of.

from Haaretz
Gallant’s comments provoked an immediate political row, with Netanyahu pushing back rapidly with a videotaped statement and a call from the far-right national security minister, Itamar Ben-Gvir, for Gallant to be replaced.

The difficulties aid workers are having tried to get aid to Palestinians
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C48zeTZAm8i/?igsh=MTgwamh0Zjl6dGRiag==

God bless the United States of America
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7E1XpqPPMq/?igsh=MXJ1eHozZnA2cWN5aQ==

keep enabling genocide and then talk mumbo jumbo about God and democracy and international law

Genocide enabling hypocritical politicians.

@DomPom47 Genocide enabling hypocritical politicians.

There is no "genocide" and repeating a lie doesn't make it true.

I find the activities of October 7th very hard to understand as "the logical next step of an oppressed people". Storming an arts festival on gliders etc and murdering young women by rape? It sounds very calculated to be shocking (and deeply anti-women and anti-liberal culture). Calculated by a particular faction to provoke a military response surely?

Lie is not the right word here.

Where there has been a whole court case brought against Israel with numerous lawyers arguing about whether or not what is happening to Gazans is genocide, or whether or not there is a risk of genocide, there is evidently no absolute clarity that there is no possibility of genocide taking place, let alone a reason to impute that a poster who thinks there is this possibility, is repeating a lie.

You could explain your reasons for disagreeing that it is genocide and that would be different.

The word ‘Genocide’ apart, what about the main point of her post about the dishonesty of the Biden administration regarding their part in contributing to a massive death toll among Palestinians in Gaza.

A huge number of people have been killed there by Israel using American bombs and weapons.

With so many people protesting about this in America and elsewhere, following Netanyahu’s declared intention to go into Rafah, the American administration, seemingly shocked that further huge numbers of innocent Palestinians would be killed if this happened, appeared to call out loudly and publicly to Israel, making sure all could hear, that they were seriously considering holding back the next shipment of bombs.

What DomPom47’s clip showed however was that

President Biden didst protest too much. While his right hand was hailing the people to say, ‘Look, we’re holding back the bombs!’, the left hand had already sent them, and Israel was about to take delivery.

@ScrollingLeaves
I think it is inaccurate and misleading to talk about genocide before the ICJ verdict has been passed.

There is a perfectly serviceable word in existence to describe the situation, which can be used up until that point, and that word is "war".

A parallel might be drawn with cases involving the prosecution of individuals, in which it is inappropriate to assume guilt until there has been a proper judgment.

It gets in the way of argument and discussion.

This is slightly off point, but this discussion has made me think of all the people in Gaza who will never get a chance to prove their innocence or their right to live, it’s too late for them.

I m sticking to my genocide word - it is what is happening to the Palestinian people.

Let’s be honest, even if the court were to say yes it is a genocide some posters would say this is not true because of the anti Israel rhetoric and student protests or something else and still not accept what is happening.