To think that the blame lies with Hamas and Israel deserves our support

[measuringmylifeincoffeespoons]

Of course, the deaths of the aid workers recently is a terrible tragedy and it is entirely right that Israel is investigating why it happened and holding members of the IDF responsible.

However, the criticism of Israel seems to miss a fundamentally important point which is that Israel is engaged in military operations in Gaza for one reason only: the barbaric terrorist attacks that were committed by Hamas on 7 October and their continued imprisonment of Israel citizens as hostages.

Of course, the deaths of the aid workers is a tragedy. Every civilian death that occurs in a war is a tragedy. But the reality is that that is what happens in a war, and Hamas is responsible for the fact that there is a war.

The war can be ended, and billions of dollars of aid can be released into Gaza, very simply. Hamas simply needs to lay down its arms and release the Israeli citizens that it has taken hostage and continues to keep imprisoned.

Unless and until Hamas do that, the state of Israel deserves our continuing support in its battle against a brutal terrorist organisation that has kidnapped the innocent civilians of a democratic state.

Its very confusing. We are constantly told its indiscriminate carpet bombing. Yet you say its AI targetted attacks.

We are constantly tild the IDF wont let anyone in so we dont know what they are doing. Yet you have lots of detail.

They use many types of attacks, targeted and untargeted.

There are people in Gaza who can report on what's happening.

It shouldn't be that confusing for you.

I think the problem is when "defending" yourself involves killing tens of thousands of civilians, destroying most civilian infrastructure and starving the population.

That's not defence.

It's been both indiscriminate carpet bombing and AI-targeted. You're right, I should have included both in that list.

The IDF do not allow independent journalists access. Much of the footage we see comes from IDF soldiers posting it on social media.

And not only that. Look at their actions in West Bank and you can understand that this is not defending. Arresting people without any charges and torturing them, killing people(including children), approving the longest settlement areas ever, allowing settlers creating problems , closing the mosques during Ramadan , etc etc

this is nothing but defending themselves ,

I don't think many people would object to self-defence or the removal of Hamas as a threat. This was not the only option to achieve those goals, though. And actually it's been a rather ineffective option when you consider the initially stated objectives. What it's been effective at is killing civilians and destroying a society.

Seriously, it is not carpet bombing. Look it up

Whats confusing is the mixed messages, hyperbole & people just making stuff up. We are told there is no internet, no phones so how do these people ger their reports out?

Who said there were no phones? Why would there be no phones in Gaza?

We are told there is no internet, no phones
Who is telling you this?

Seriously, there has been.

There has also been the other things I mentioned.

However, if it doesn't bother you that the population of Gaza is experiencing these things, you might want to reflect on whether it would bother you if those things were to happen where you live, or where your loved ones live.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68006607

Nothing like images to check what was Gaza before and what it’s after

Those maps make for horrific viewing. I saw a post on social media this morning showing Palestinian homes in winter before the assault on Gaza and then cut to people living in sodden tents with children removing water with buckets. Hideous.

It's hard to see how this damage alone doesn't satsify condition (c) in the Geneva Convention definition of genocide. That is, "[d]eliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;"

Along with the rest.

https://www.nytimes.com/1996/05/27/opinion/how-easily-we-killed-them.html

An article from 1996 about the IDF incursion into Lebanon, sound familiar?.

"We killed 170 people in Lebanon last month. Most were refugees. A good number were women, children and the elderly. Nine civilians, including a 2-year-old and a 100-year-old man, were killed at Sachmor, a village......
.......We killed all these people not in a fit of inflamed passion, not because of messianic extremism or nationalist fervor. We killed them under the umbrella of a peace campaign. Under the leadership of a peace Government and in the midst of an election campaign that features peace. We killed them so that peace could be re-elected. We killed them because our peace coalition needed to prove it is just as tough as the opposition...It would seem we have matured quite a bit, for this time we shot and did not weep. This time, we killed with yuppie efficiency. We were meticulous in our cold calculations and matter-of-fact considerations. Meticulous in emptying out the villages in an orderly, precise manner. Meticulous in killing only from a distance. And we did it all in a secular way -- ignoring the archaic concepts of sin, of God's image, of "Thou shalt not kill."
Our one big alibi was this: The responsibility is not our own; it is Hezbollah's.."

The delusion and rationalisation here is scary. I think a good way to judge if you are doing something wrong is to ask a child. If you asked most five year olds whether it was Ok to do this they would know that the simple answer, which does not require mental gymnastics to arrive at, and which is the correct one, is no.

It's extremely scary, as it allows the justification of almost anything as "defence".
As we have seen from the ICJ evidence, this behaviour is condoned and disseminated from the top government down to the soldiers in the field.

The article also contained this:
".....Still, it is important to be precise. We did not kill them with prior intent. We killed them because it was not important for us not to kill them. Because the yawning gap between the unlimited sacrosanct importance we attribute to our own lives and the very limited sacred character we attribute to the lives of others allowed us to kill them.
We killed them out of a certain naive hubris. Believing with absolute certitude that now, with the White House, the Senate and much of the American media in our hands, the lives of others do not count as much as our own. Believing we really have the right to instruct 400,000 people to leave their homes within eight hours. And that we have the right, when those eight hours have passed, to treat their homes as military targets. And that we have the right to drop 16,000 shells on their villages and small towns. And that we have the right to kill without being guilty.

Bassem Youssef discusses the irrationality and constant state of conflict in this podcast, The Israeli society is used to war, with the government not being held accountable by the International Community.

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Its been said time and time again by various news outlets and pro-palestinian activists as an eg of Israel shutting down communications in gaza.

When did I say it didn't bother me?

There has been communication blackouts where internet and phone lines are cut but not all the time.

Phrases such as 'hyperbole' and 'just making stuff up' can give the impression of being less than concerned about what's happening.

I don't think anyone could even come close to making up the reality of what's happening in Gaza 😔

How many more civilians need to die? 1200 Israelis, 30k+ Palestinians and growing.
Israel has the sympathy of the world then f@cked it up with behaving like terrorists themselves.

It's hilarious when people say the post offensive shit they can think of and follow it eith "no offense".

Yes this