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Conflict in the Middle East

Anyone seen the video where the police officer says a swastika is not anti-Semitic at a pro Palestine March?

469 replies

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 31/03/2024 15:29

I know there are lots of pro-Palestine supporters in this area of the board. If not anti-Semitic then what else is it standing for in this context? Apparently it was drawn on some protestors banners.

OP posts:
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stomachamelon · 05/04/2024 14:32

@Parkingt111 I don't mean this to sound patronising but I admire you for saying that.

CatsKnowTheAnswer · 05/04/2024 14:35

BrownTroutBlues · 05/04/2024 11:39

Please read the posts tagged.
The point I was raising is the previous posters sweeping generalisation that everyone is complicit in the actions of a few!

Everyone is not complicit.
To assume they are is discrimination.!!

Discrimination is wrong!!
It’s worth also pointing out that how do we know that people who try to stir up hate weren’t pointed out to the police by the many peaceful demonstrators, we don’t. Maybe they did, maybe that’s why they got arrested.

Ive said my peace if people still can’t appreciate the suffering that hate and discrimination brings to everyone then there will be many more wars to come.

Like I said before, I'm sure YOUR intentions are pure, I have no reason to think otherwise, but it's very naive to automatically assume the same can be said of everyone else - as you fervently pointed out all people can not be placed in one homogenous grouping. But I think your last paragraph is somewhat rich - this thread alone is full of examples where people are directly experiencing hate and discrimination due to the protests you're actively participating in!

KestrelMoon · 05/04/2024 16:24

CatsKnowTheAnswer · 05/04/2024 14:35

Like I said before, I'm sure YOUR intentions are pure, I have no reason to think otherwise, but it's very naive to automatically assume the same can be said of everyone else - as you fervently pointed out all people can not be placed in one homogenous grouping. But I think your last paragraph is somewhat rich - this thread alone is full of examples where people are directly experiencing hate and discrimination due to the protests you're actively participating in!

I don’t agree the protests are the cause of hate and discrimination towards my Jewish community or self. I’ve said as much before.

The cause of the antisemitic crimes are, in my opinion, due to the very graphic evidence coming out of Gaza showcasing Israel’s reckless war of vengeance with unacceptable levels of bloodshed.

The fellow U.K. residents I march with calling for peace, if anything are countering the increase in antisemitism because they far outnumber the extremists. If all the protesters who truly wanted peace and security for Israeli and Palestinian went home because they were worried people like you would tar them as antisemtic…then that just leaves mobs of extremist haters roaming the streets. There would be no larger majority to restrain them or report them.

I don’t agree that all marchers must pass a purity test or everyone is complicit with the most evil hearted out of tens of thousands to two hundred thousand protesters. If only 4 people get arrested for going too far and expressing hate, that is a success story, as it’s less than 1/10th of 1%.

There is a saying “An eye for an eye leaves the world blind” - that is what we are living through right now and we cannot turn a blind eye to it, staying home out of fear of criticism is cowardly. I go. Many posters think I wouldn’t be safe, would be lynched the way they portray these marches. They are not hateful. I’ve never felt unsafe even though we are clearly a few hundred Jews marching amongst thousands.

DeepBiscuit · 05/04/2024 16:50

The cause of the antisemitic crimes are, in my opinion, due to the very graphic evidence coming out of Gaza showcasing Israel’s reckless war of vengeance with unacceptable levels of bloodshed.

The cause of antisemitic crimes are antisemites.

quantumbutterfly · 05/04/2024 17:08

DeepBiscuit · 05/04/2024 16:50

The cause of the antisemitic crimes are, in my opinion, due to the very graphic evidence coming out of Gaza showcasing Israel’s reckless war of vengeance with unacceptable levels of bloodshed.

The cause of antisemitic crimes are antisemites.

Indeed. Do they hate all Russians too.

KestrelMoon · 05/04/2024 17:10

DeepBiscuit · 05/04/2024 16:50

The cause of the antisemitic crimes are, in my opinion, due to the very graphic evidence coming out of Gaza showcasing Israel’s reckless war of vengeance with unacceptable levels of bloodshed.

The cause of antisemitic crimes are antisemites.

Yes, of course, but that’s too simplistic of a conclusion.

The documented 700%+ increase in antisemitic hate incidents is directly correlated to the ongoing war.

There aren’t any more or fewer antisemites in the U.K., it is the current war that is emboldening them to act on their bigotry and hate.

There is a similar increase in Islamaphobic hate incidents as well due to Hamas’ terrorism because it resonates with past wars - ISIS, Taliban and so on.

The U.K. isn’t isolated from or unaffected by world events.

KestrelMoon · 05/04/2024 17:13

quantumbutterfly · 05/04/2024 17:08

Indeed. Do they hate all Russians too.

Hate crimes against Russians increased in the wake of the invasion of Ukraine.
As did hate crimes against Chinese appearing Asians during Covid.

Haters will grasp onto any excuse to act out their particular brand of hate.
World events often provide a convenient excuse.

Kendodd · 05/04/2024 19:07

KestrelMoon · 05/04/2024 16:24

I don’t agree the protests are the cause of hate and discrimination towards my Jewish community or self. I’ve said as much before.

The cause of the antisemitic crimes are, in my opinion, due to the very graphic evidence coming out of Gaza showcasing Israel’s reckless war of vengeance with unacceptable levels of bloodshed.

The fellow U.K. residents I march with calling for peace, if anything are countering the increase in antisemitism because they far outnumber the extremists. If all the protesters who truly wanted peace and security for Israeli and Palestinian went home because they were worried people like you would tar them as antisemtic…then that just leaves mobs of extremist haters roaming the streets. There would be no larger majority to restrain them or report them.

I don’t agree that all marchers must pass a purity test or everyone is complicit with the most evil hearted out of tens of thousands to two hundred thousand protesters. If only 4 people get arrested for going too far and expressing hate, that is a success story, as it’s less than 1/10th of 1%.

There is a saying “An eye for an eye leaves the world blind” - that is what we are living through right now and we cannot turn a blind eye to it, staying home out of fear of criticism is cowardly. I go. Many posters think I wouldn’t be safe, would be lynched the way they portray these marches. They are not hateful. I’ve never felt unsafe even though we are clearly a few hundred Jews marching amongst thousands.

Edited

Are you Jewish @KestrelMoon?
I've never been to any of the marches as I live at the other end of the country. Some people say that are filled with hate and are marching for the destruction of Israel. Others say its not like that at all and really peaceful. I'd quite like to see for myself although it looks like my reasons for marching might be coming to an end anyway. I want our government to stop supporting the bombing campaign and selling arms to Israel for use in Gaza. I think this might be happening soon anyway.
It sounds like you march with Jewish people? If I go, could I join you? If there are any candle lit vigils to remember all the dead, I could attend those as well. If you are Jewish, I don't know how observant you are to reply tonight. Atheist family here so can post as I want.

PrairieChicken · 05/04/2024 23:44

Muthaofcats · 05/04/2024 14:27

I just typed out a whole answer and then gave up and deleted it. I think we are operating on very different levels and I’m not sure even if I explained to you, you’d be willing or able to understand, so I’ll leave you to make up your own approach to this vastly complex and nuanced subject.

If you’re happy to March alongside swastikas and chants about ethnically cleansing Israel of all Jews and believe people are ‘discriminating against you’ for challenging that, then I don’t think it’s worth my energy trying to change your mind.

I despair.

It’s clear you are on a very different page.
Its sad you don’t however see the marches for what they actually are.

You are seeing an awful lot that no one else on the marches is though.

I see huge numbers of people calling for peace,
Against the mass genocide of an entire population,
Against the abhorrent actions of the IDF supported by and instigated by their government.

Against the slaughter of children and murder of babies left to starve alone. Against the levelling of Gaza.
Against the arrest and incarceration without trial of innocent civilians.
Against the torture and abuse of civilians jailed for nothing.
Against the killing of journalists, aid workers, doctors and nurses.
Against the stripping and torture of civilians by the IDF and settlers in the West Bank.

Against the indiscriminate demolition of infrastructure in buildings, hospitals and water plants.
Against blocking aid to the starving
Against..
Against..and on and on and on it goes!

I see people demonstrating to show support for the Palestinians and to show Governments we do not support genocide, we do not support ethnic cleansing and we do not support our Governments support of Israel.

I despair that you do not see any of this. You clearly only see what you want to.
I despair

@BrownTroutBlues if you are on the marches that’s a fantastic thing to do. I’m sure you’re above negative comments on here.
Walk proud for peace.

BrownTroutBlues · 05/04/2024 23:54

CatsKnowTheAnswer · 05/04/2024 14:35

Like I said before, I'm sure YOUR intentions are pure, I have no reason to think otherwise, but it's very naive to automatically assume the same can be said of everyone else - as you fervently pointed out all people can not be placed in one homogenous grouping. But I think your last paragraph is somewhat rich - this thread alone is full of examples where people are directly experiencing hate and discrimination due to the protests you're actively participating in!

Appreciate your comments, my thoughts and actions do not come from a place of hate.

My final comment was perfectly relevant especially as the examples on here of discrimination show the affects they have on peoples and whole communities mental health. So let’s not make assumptions about an entire population and let’s not discriminate. If no one does perhaps we can all live in peace. It takes everyone to comply.

Barquentine · 05/04/2024 23:58

PrairieChicken · 05/04/2024 23:44

It’s clear you are on a very different page.
Its sad you don’t however see the marches for what they actually are.

You are seeing an awful lot that no one else on the marches is though.

I see huge numbers of people calling for peace,
Against the mass genocide of an entire population,
Against the abhorrent actions of the IDF supported by and instigated by their government.

Against the slaughter of children and murder of babies left to starve alone. Against the levelling of Gaza.
Against the arrest and incarceration without trial of innocent civilians.
Against the torture and abuse of civilians jailed for nothing.
Against the killing of journalists, aid workers, doctors and nurses.
Against the stripping and torture of civilians by the IDF and settlers in the West Bank.

Against the indiscriminate demolition of infrastructure in buildings, hospitals and water plants.
Against blocking aid to the starving
Against..
Against..and on and on and on it goes!

I see people demonstrating to show support for the Palestinians and to show Governments we do not support genocide, we do not support ethnic cleansing and we do not support our Governments support of Israel.

I despair that you do not see any of this. You clearly only see what you want to.
I despair

@BrownTroutBlues if you are on the marches that’s a fantastic thing to do. I’m sure you’re above negative comments on here.
Walk proud for peace.

‘Walk proud for peace’

What a great line and Thankyou !

( as an aside and completely off point does your username refer to Herb Greens building because it’s a favourite of mine )

BrownTroutBlues · 06/04/2024 00:00

PrairieChicken · 05/04/2024 23:44

It’s clear you are on a very different page.
Its sad you don’t however see the marches for what they actually are.

You are seeing an awful lot that no one else on the marches is though.

I see huge numbers of people calling for peace,
Against the mass genocide of an entire population,
Against the abhorrent actions of the IDF supported by and instigated by their government.

Against the slaughter of children and murder of babies left to starve alone. Against the levelling of Gaza.
Against the arrest and incarceration without trial of innocent civilians.
Against the torture and abuse of civilians jailed for nothing.
Against the killing of journalists, aid workers, doctors and nurses.
Against the stripping and torture of civilians by the IDF and settlers in the West Bank.

Against the indiscriminate demolition of infrastructure in buildings, hospitals and water plants.
Against blocking aid to the starving
Against..
Against..and on and on and on it goes!

I see people demonstrating to show support for the Palestinians and to show Governments we do not support genocide, we do not support ethnic cleansing and we do not support our Governments support of Israel.

I despair that you do not see any of this. You clearly only see what you want to.
I despair

@BrownTroutBlues if you are on the marches that’s a fantastic thing to do. I’m sure you’re above negative comments on here.
Walk proud for peace.

🙏

PlantingTreesAgain · 06/04/2024 00:12

Kendodd · 05/04/2024 19:07

Are you Jewish @KestrelMoon?
I've never been to any of the marches as I live at the other end of the country. Some people say that are filled with hate and are marching for the destruction of Israel. Others say its not like that at all and really peaceful. I'd quite like to see for myself although it looks like my reasons for marching might be coming to an end anyway. I want our government to stop supporting the bombing campaign and selling arms to Israel for use in Gaza. I think this might be happening soon anyway.
It sounds like you march with Jewish people? If I go, could I join you? If there are any candle lit vigils to remember all the dead, I could attend those as well. If you are Jewish, I don't know how observant you are to reply tonight. Atheist family here so can post as I want.

The marches are not filled with hate. People are not calling for the destruction of Israel.
There is nothing to be worried about or scared in joining, everyone is there with the common goal of peace
People want the Government to stop supporting Israel and to support a stop to the war.

quantumbutterfly · 06/04/2024 00:19

PlantingTreesAgain · 06/04/2024 00:12

The marches are not filled with hate. People are not calling for the destruction of Israel.
There is nothing to be worried about or scared in joining, everyone is there with the common goal of peace
People want the Government to stop supporting Israel and to support a stop to the war.

Many of us would like the war to stop, we would also like the hostages / their bodies returned to their families and for Gaza to stop sending missiles and murderers into Israel and a Gazan government that will use the billions in aid to build a state that can live in peace alongside Israel rather than keeping hamas leaders in 5* star luxury in Qatar.

PlantingTreesAgain · 06/04/2024 00:30

quantumbutterfly · 06/04/2024 00:19

Many of us would like the war to stop, we would also like the hostages / their bodies returned to their families and for Gaza to stop sending missiles and murderers into Israel and a Gazan government that will use the billions in aid to build a state that can live in peace alongside Israel rather than keeping hamas leaders in 5* star luxury in Qatar.

Yes we’d all like peace and I’m sure the Palestinians are currently dying for it.
The return of all remaining hostages and all Israeli detainees as well, of course.
All things equal and a reasonable solution for everyone needs to be sought.
Then war crimes investigations…..obviously!

CatsKnowTheAnswer · 06/04/2024 00:37

BrownTroutBlues · 05/04/2024 23:54

Appreciate your comments, my thoughts and actions do not come from a place of hate.

My final comment was perfectly relevant especially as the examples on here of discrimination show the affects they have on peoples and whole communities mental health. So let’s not make assumptions about an entire population and let’s not discriminate. If no one does perhaps we can all live in peace. It takes everyone to comply.

I appreciate your sentiments - we all wish for peace, yes absolutely and thank you for acknowledging the effect such hate and discrimination as displayed on this forum, can have on others. One poster was treated horrifically last night. I hope you'll do your part and comply with calling out any anti Semitic behaviour you bear witness to on the marches. As you said, we all have a part to play in challenging discrimination

PlantingTreesAgain · 06/04/2024 00:38

PlantingTreesAgain · 06/04/2024 00:30

Yes we’d all like peace and I’m sure the Palestinians are currently dying for it.
The return of all remaining hostages and all Israeli detainees as well, of course.
All things equal and a reasonable solution for everyone needs to be sought.
Then war crimes investigations…..obviously!

🤯typo, it should read
The return of all remaining hostages and all Palestinian detainees as well, of course.

Muthaofcats · 06/04/2024 06:44

PrairieChicken · 05/04/2024 23:44

It’s clear you are on a very different page.
Its sad you don’t however see the marches for what they actually are.

You are seeing an awful lot that no one else on the marches is though.

I see huge numbers of people calling for peace,
Against the mass genocide of an entire population,
Against the abhorrent actions of the IDF supported by and instigated by their government.

Against the slaughter of children and murder of babies left to starve alone. Against the levelling of Gaza.
Against the arrest and incarceration without trial of innocent civilians.
Against the torture and abuse of civilians jailed for nothing.
Against the killing of journalists, aid workers, doctors and nurses.
Against the stripping and torture of civilians by the IDF and settlers in the West Bank.

Against the indiscriminate demolition of infrastructure in buildings, hospitals and water plants.
Against blocking aid to the starving
Against..
Against..and on and on and on it goes!

I see people demonstrating to show support for the Palestinians and to show Governments we do not support genocide, we do not support ethnic cleansing and we do not support our Governments support of Israel.

I despair that you do not see any of this. You clearly only see what you want to.
I despair

@BrownTroutBlues if you are on the marches that’s a fantastic thing to do. I’m sure you’re above negative comments on here.
Walk proud for peace.

Yep still an absolute refusal to ‘see’ anything other than your own narrow frame of reference.

And you seem so certain of what you are marching ‘Against’ without realising how problematic and loaded a lot of what you’ve just asserted as fact is (genocide even before the international criminal court has had an opportunity to determine on it, which is quite impressive !)

But we have already established you’re not so concerned with basic legal definitions or critical thinking so I’m assuming international criminal law (or the basics of Middle Eastern and global history) is a step too far….

it says a lot that you’ve read my issue as being ‘anti’ the right to March or against Palestinians. I am ‘discriminating against you’ because I don’t agree with marching alongside swastikas and think a group allowing the brandishing of such slogans and symbols endorsing such things is complicit.

I’ve not for one minute criticised yours or anyone else’s right to protest. I don’t disagree with marching against Netanyahu (as most of Israel were before 7/10 even happened) or for your concerns over the innocent people in Gaza and the expectation Israel defends itself proportionately or in compliance with international law.

This thread is about those marching with swastikas (along with other symbols, slogans and behaviour that causes fear and incites hatred or promotes misinformation) being at those same marches and the police saying it’s ‘context dependant’ and what this says about the changing sentiment and society’s normalisation of and acceptance For things that would previously have been viewed as an abomination (or at least such hatred would have lurked under the surface for fear of being exposed, now people are feeling much more confident
to let it flow over).

Even just people’s acceptance of flawed logic or lies or propaganda as fact without even realising, I assume because they’re taking a lot of what they ‘know’ from social media rather than any real knowledge of the subject or rigorous testing of what it is they read and the sources for it. The problem with trying to ‘see’ anything this way is you don’t realise how prone to manipulation it will be as you’ll be fed a diet of content based on an algorithm, and much of what you’re seeing will be fake, generated to stir up sentiment and division.

You may have not ‘seen’ any of these things on the March because you’re too busy posting pictures of yourself being such a virtuous person on social media and hoping you’ll be ‘seen’ but you know full well that they are there. And if you can’t see it, ask yourself why you don’t?

I personally wouldn’t want to be ‘seen’ as part of any hatred or division or anything that caused intimidation to others.

When others are telling you this is what impact you’re having it, you still won’t see it. You don’t ‘see’ it because you don’t ‘see’ Jewish fear or pain as legitimate?

But you don’t need to look to others actions, I can see why you don’t see any issue with what others are doing alongside you.

we might both want the bombing and killing to stop. But we don’t want the same things.

So I would not join you on your March, I’ll be at the one with true sentiments of peace being called for, without the division, ignorance, hatred and ‘discrimination’ (to use your favourite word), but I know you won’t let all this get in the way of telling yourself you’re a good virtuous person.

PrairieChicken · 06/04/2024 08:53

I’m not marching.
Ive only posted once before to be thankful the guy was arrested.
so there’s no ‘still an absolute refusal to see anything other than my narrow frame of mind’

I think you think you’re talking to someone else.

PrairieChicken · 06/04/2024 08:54

PrairieChicken · 06/04/2024 08:53

I’m not marching.
Ive only posted once before to be thankful the guy was arrested.
so there’s no ‘still an absolute refusal to see anything other than my narrow frame of mind’

I think you think you’re talking to someone else.

Apologies that was related to @Muthaofcats last post.

stomachamelon · 06/04/2024 09:08

apple.news/AVgjfmxFqSUKL6A_ooFpTZw

March for Al Quds Day Pro Palestine March.
Arrests made for;
Inciting racial hatred.
Homophobia.
Obstruction.
Assault on an emergency worker.

He added: “On the Tube, I saw a group of young people with Palestinian flags and they were all wearing masks – if their cause is genuine, why are they covering their faces?”

Comment from pro Israeli counter protestor.

Barquentine · 06/04/2024 09:08

Passions run high on both sides of the divide.
If all some see on threads such as these or on marches is a bunch of anti-semites and not simply people who support peace and who support the Palestinians it is difficult to change mindset.

It is, however, important not to judge all for the actions of some idiots that are inappropriate.
A lot of pro Palestinians are constantly called anti-Semite and that is a very narrow view of the millions of people across the world who are shocked by their plight.

quantumbutterfly · 06/04/2024 09:18

There is a history of antagonists in the UK rallying behind the Palestinian flag against Jews in the same way the national front uses the union flag.

Take away the flags, the face masks and the hamas cosplay, the swastikas and red hands and the call for 'peace' would be easier to see.

Barquentine · 06/04/2024 09:33

Passions ran high on Fridays marches with arrests and extreme behaviour on both sides.
I don’t think it’s a great idea to allow two marches one pro Israel and one pro Palestinian to happen on the same day in such close proximity to each other.
What a nightmare for the police.
They said they will make arrests
‘without fear or favour’……we should be thankful for their support and hard work.

Anyone seen the video where the police officer says a swastika is not anti-Semitic at a pro Palestine March?
Anyone seen the video where the police officer says a swastika is not anti-Semitic at a pro Palestine March?
AngkorWat · 06/04/2024 09:42

stomachamelon · 06/04/2024 09:08

apple.news/AVgjfmxFqSUKL6A_ooFpTZw

March for Al Quds Day Pro Palestine March.
Arrests made for;
Inciting racial hatred.
Homophobia.
Obstruction.
Assault on an emergency worker.

He added: “On the Tube, I saw a group of young people with Palestinian flags and they were all wearing masks – if their cause is genuine, why are they covering their faces?”

Comment from pro Israeli counter protestor.

‘Threatening behaviour on both marches’
in the interests of equality it’s also worth adding to the list pro Israel marchers arrests

For example
Two arrested for threatening to kill

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