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Conflict in the Middle East
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Alstreena · 10/04/2024 11:21

@Mags48 "So you don’t have the time but you are criticising everyone else for not doing so? "

Not all all.

I said I didn't have time to monitor threads (which I would be obliged to do. if I started them - not comment on them.

"What did you call it - selective empathy."

Yes my comment still stands.

People on this site spend hours posting on the Israel/Hamas conflict to the point of obsession. yet won't take the trouble to consider other equally distressing conflicts.
When these are flagged up, all we get is accusations of 'derailment'.

Some people here are just plain blinkered to the suffering of anyone outside Gaza, they need to have a good look in the mirror and ask why they are turning their backs on so many innocent people?

Mags48 · 10/04/2024 11:29

Alstreena · 10/04/2024 11:21

@Mags48 "So you don’t have the time but you are criticising everyone else for not doing so? "

Not all all.

I said I didn't have time to monitor threads (which I would be obliged to do. if I started them - not comment on them.

"What did you call it - selective empathy."

Yes my comment still stands.

People on this site spend hours posting on the Israel/Hamas conflict to the point of obsession. yet won't take the trouble to consider other equally distressing conflicts.
When these are flagged up, all we get is accusations of 'derailment'.

Some people here are just plain blinkered to the suffering of anyone outside Gaza, they need to have a good look in the mirror and ask why they are turning their backs on so many innocent people?

Edited

All I see here is a lot of excuses and hypocrisy.

Alstreena · 10/04/2024 11:39

@Mags48 "All I see here is a lot of excuses and hypocrisy."

So you are blind to the suffering of anyone outside Gaza?

Glad you are able to admit it.

Mags48 · 10/04/2024 11:54

Alstreena · 10/04/2024 11:39

@Mags48 "All I see here is a lot of excuses and hypocrisy."

So you are blind to the suffering of anyone outside Gaza?

Glad you are able to admit it.

Instead of pointing out how desperate you are to deflect from what’s happening in Gaza - I’m going to focus on what this thread is actually for.

As per the Guardian within the last hour:

“Spanish prime minister Pedro Sánchezwarned on Wednesday that IsraelHamas risks “destabilising the Middle East, and as a consequence, the entire world”, reports AFP.”

Efacsen · 10/04/2024 12:12

Not heard anything about this for a while

US-built Gaza aid pier still weeks away as famine fears grow

A US plan to build a floating pier off the coast of Gaza to deliver much-needed aid is estimated to cost at least $180m and is still weeks away from being operational, a news report says.

About 1,000 US personnel are constructing the pier, which will be placed about 7km (3 miles) offshore. It will likely be ready by May, ABC News reported, as hundreds of thousands of Palestinians face famine with Israeli authorities restricting food and medicine into the war-ravaged territory by road.

Cost of US effort to build humanitarian aid pier off Gaza expected to top $180M

The U.S. plans to spend at least $180 million to build a massive floating pier off the Gaza coast to enable humanitarian aid shipments after Israel blocked ground routes.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/cost-us-effort-build-humanitarian-aid-pier-off/story?id=108340419

EasterIssland · 10/04/2024 12:21

Mags48 · 10/04/2024 11:54

Instead of pointing out how desperate you are to deflect from what’s happening in Gaza - I’m going to focus on what this thread is actually for.

As per the Guardian within the last hour:

“Spanish prime minister Pedro Sánchezwarned on Wednesday that IsraelHamas risks “destabilising the Middle East, and as a consequence, the entire world”, reports AFP.”

Sanchez wants to recognise Palestine as a country before summer I read yesterday
https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/sanchez-will-embark-on-a-european-tour-to-push-for-palestinian-recognition/

Alstreena · 10/04/2024 12:22

@Mags48 "I’m going to focus on what this thread is actually for."

The original posting was about starving babies actually.

You refer to the Spanish PM as if he is some expert on ME matters, when he's at present mired in allegations of corruption.

From The Spectator 24/3/24
Just four months into its second term, Spain’s Socialist-led government is already mired in corruption allegations. The latest scandal emerged this week and focuses on the wife of prime minister Pedro Sanchez, Begoña Gómez.
Gomez is alleged to have had secret meetings with the management of Air Europa, Spain’s third largest airline, in late 2020, just before it was bailed out with a €475 million aid package by her husband’s leftist government.
The Conservative Popular party (PP) has wasted no time in capitalising on this. Eloy Suarez Lamata, a PP representative in Spain’s upper house, claimed that the allegations against Gomez ‘would have brought down’ any other president in Europe ‘because Caesar’s wife cannot have commercial relations with the companies that Caesar rescues. That is called state corruption’.

Alstreena · 10/04/2024 12:24

EasterIssland · 10/04/2024 12:21

Sanchez wants to recognise Palestine as a country before summer I read yesterday
https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/sanchez-will-embark-on-a-european-tour-to-push-for-palestinian-recognition/

Edited

Is he going to be around long enough to see that through?

Mags48 · 10/04/2024 12:33

EasterIssland · 10/04/2024 12:21

Sanchez wants to recognise Palestine as a country before summer I read yesterday
https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/sanchez-will-embark-on-a-european-tour-to-push-for-palestinian-recognition/

Edited

Ireland too.

Scirocco · 10/04/2024 12:58

@Alstreena, having one huge thread on "war is terrible", would be confusing for posters - everyone would lose track of what they were talking about. If we can't separate out specific issues, we can't talk effectively about anything. Needing to separate things out is why books need chapters, forums need boards and threads, etc.

Many people do care about other conflicts and human rights issues around the world and have been involved in activism or otherwise taken steps themselves to try to raise awareness, or avoid supporting, etc. They might just not feel the need to go "here is my protest CV" with every post. That's not selective empathy, it's staying on topic.

For some people, the Israel-Gaza conflict might be their first experience or one of their first experiences of protesting against or wanting to object to the ethically questionable military actions of the UK government and an overseas government, as well as the actions of a proscribed terrorist group. Rather than belittling people in this group, it might be more effective to encourage them to become aware of and start applying what they're learning to other examples of oppression, genocide and war around the world.

I think if you start a thread about Yemen (other than one in which you're just using it to bash people caring about a different situation) you might find people do actually care.

EasterIssland · 10/04/2024 12:59

Alstreena · 10/04/2024 12:24

Is he going to be around long enough to see that through?

Hope so! He was only rechosen middle last year and has been as prime minister of Spain for over 4 years. (I’m Spanish and whilst I don’t like some of the things he’s doing I like his position about the whole war)

Alstreena · 10/04/2024 13:06

EasterIssland · 10/04/2024 12:59

Hope so! He was only rechosen middle last year and has been as prime minister of Spain for over 4 years. (I’m Spanish and whilst I don’t like some of the things he’s doing I like his position about the whole war)

You may be happy but the huge protests in Spain against him last autumn indicate differently.

Apparently 70% of Spanish voters were against the deal to give an amnesty to the Catalan separatists.

As I see it, the only 'destabilisation' he'll be qualified to talk about is a divided Spain, unless he sorts out the 'Catalan question'.

He should put his own house in order first.

EasterIssland · 10/04/2024 13:09

Alstreena · 10/04/2024 13:06

You may be happy but the huge protests in Spain against him last autumn indicate differently.

Apparently 70% of Spanish voters were against the deal to give an amnesty to the Catalan separatists.

As I see it, the only 'destabilisation' he'll be qualified to talk about is a divided Spain, unless he sorts out the 'Catalan question'.

He should put his own house in order first.

Thanks for derailing the thread to the Catalonian amnisty. as a Spanish I can tell you that doubt 70% are against it. Take care with the sources you read. Some might not be as bias as you expect them to be.

Alstreena · 10/04/2024 13:13

@Scirocco "Rather than belittling people in this group, "

Excuse me, where did that come from?

All over this thread are people being insulted an belittled because they are unwilling to join the pearl-clutching, 'oh isn't it terrible' emotive group of pro-Palestinian supporters.
None of that comes from me.

I have already explained why I won't single out a specific conflict for another thread because IMO all conflicts are equal - in that they shouldn't be happening.

Alstreena · 10/04/2024 13:15

EasterIssland · 10/04/2024 13:09

Thanks for derailing the thread to the Catalonian amnisty. as a Spanish I can tell you that doubt 70% are against it. Take care with the sources you read. Some might not be as bias as you expect them to be.

It's not a derailment.

I didn't post about the Spanish President in the first place, so please go and throw your brickbats at whoever did.

EasterIssland · 10/04/2024 13:23

What has the Catalonian conflict have to do with this ? The poster that first brought the Spanish president today was about his comments about Israel’s actions so well within the topic of this thread.

EasterIssland · 10/04/2024 13:26

Alstreena · 10/04/2024 12:22

@Mags48 "I’m going to focus on what this thread is actually for."

The original posting was about starving babies actually.

You refer to the Spanish PM as if he is some expert on ME matters, when he's at present mired in allegations of corruption.

From The Spectator 24/3/24
Just four months into its second term, Spain’s Socialist-led government is already mired in corruption allegations. The latest scandal emerged this week and focuses on the wife of prime minister Pedro Sanchez, Begoña Gómez.
Gomez is alleged to have had secret meetings with the management of Air Europa, Spain’s third largest airline, in late 2020, just before it was bailed out with a €475 million aid package by her husband’s leftist government.
The Conservative Popular party (PP) has wasted no time in capitalising on this. Eloy Suarez Lamata, a PP representative in Spain’s upper house, claimed that the allegations against Gomez ‘would have brought down’ any other president in Europe ‘because Caesar’s wife cannot have commercial relations with the companies that Caesar rescues. That is called state corruption’.

What does Begoña have to do with Gaza ?

ps. Btw the accusations about her have proven to be a fake and whoever brought them have had to apologise. Please stop spreading information that has nothing to do with this thread.

Scirocco · 10/04/2024 13:45

Alstreena · 10/04/2024 13:13

@Scirocco "Rather than belittling people in this group, "

Excuse me, where did that come from?

All over this thread are people being insulted an belittled because they are unwilling to join the pearl-clutching, 'oh isn't it terrible' emotive group of pro-Palestinian supporters.
None of that comes from me.

I have already explained why I won't single out a specific conflict for another thread because IMO all conflicts are equal - in that they shouldn't be happening.

"Rather than belittling people in this group" is not about this thread. It applies to a tendency by some people to dismiss or question the legitimacy of someone getting involved in activism or becoming aware of international issues like this for the first time. Everyone has to start somewhere. Everyone has a 'first time' and it's ok for someone's first involvement with protesting etc to be at any age and any stage of their lives.

Rather than suggesting people have selective empathy because this might be their first time getting involved, why not be welcoming and supportive of people starting out and then talk about other conflicts, human rights issues, etc.

If, for example, Yemen's conflict is important to you, then you could start a thread about it and encourage people to learn more and to take action where they can. If you think all conflicts matter, you could start threads about as many ss you can, in the relevant boards.

"All conflicts matter" sounds a lot like the "All lives matter" efforts to diminish the concerns raised by Black Lives Matter. Of course all conflicts matter. Here, in this moment and this thread, people are talking about an aspect of this conflict. That does not mean people don't talk or care about other conflicts. But preventing or objecting to people talking about specific issues, means that everything becomes vague, messy and unfocused.

May I ask what you do or have done in relation to your concerns about conflicts around the world? Do you attend events, raise awareness, donate, etc?

ConnieCounter · 10/04/2024 14:09

Alstreena · 10/04/2024 13:13

@Scirocco "Rather than belittling people in this group, "

Excuse me, where did that come from?

All over this thread are people being insulted an belittled because they are unwilling to join the pearl-clutching, 'oh isn't it terrible' emotive group of pro-Palestinian supporters.
None of that comes from me.

I have already explained why I won't single out a specific conflict for another thread because IMO all conflicts are equal - in that they shouldn't be happening.

I mean it's pretty horrific when over 30,000 people are killed, including 13,000 children. And entire cities razed to the ground with God only knows how many injured, orphaned, made childless etc.

So far you've suggested mental health issues, anti-semitism, disingenuousness and now "pearl clutching" as the reasons for our reactions.

Why does it bother you so much that people would be upset by this?

Maybe it stems from your own views of Palestinians, rather than our views on Jewish people, as you've previously claimed.

Efacsen · 10/04/2024 14:56

UN says that 95% of pregnant and breastfeeding women in Gaza not getting adequate food or nutrition

UNFPA

Alstreena · 10/04/2024 15:02

@ConnieCounter "Why does it bother you so much that people would be upset by this?"

It bothers me that people are so 'upset by this' that other human suffering seems to be irrelevant in their eyes.
There are two sides to every conflict and I hardly think the 'other side' is enjoying it much either.

So I have a suggestion for you.

Why don't you welcome people to these threads and be welcoming and supportive of people starting out and then talk about other conflicts, human rights issues?

That might be more productive than your inflammatory hyperbolic posts such as 6-3-24 at 9.50. where you accused a poster of 'no humanity' and Israel of 'deliberate starvation of millions of people' and 'State sponsored genocide'.

Maybe your posts stem from your opinion of Israelis rather than a genuine interest in understanding and harmony?

Efacsen · 10/04/2024 15:03

Gaza aid shipments to resume soon, Cyprus says, as 1,000 tons of food await delivery

'Soon' means sometime after 1st May

Alstreena · 10/04/2024 15:08

Efacsen · 10/04/2024 15:03

Gaza aid shipments to resume soon, Cyprus says, as 1,000 tons of food await delivery

'Soon' means sometime after 1st May

That is incorrect, aid is already arriving,

The opening of the Erez Crossing and the Port of Ashdod have led to significant increases in the amount of aid entering the Gaza Strip.
According to COGAT, 468 aid trucks entered Gaza yesterday,(9 April) the highest total since the beginning of the war. This follows 419 on Monday and 322 on Sunday.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-claims-highest-single-day-number-of-aid-trucks-enters-gaza-since-war-began/

Efacsen · 10/04/2024 15:12

Israeli army setting up new border crossing, not opening Erez: Report

The Israeli army is currently establishing a new border crossing to bring humanitarian aid into the Gaza Strip “and at this stage is giving up on opening the Erez crossing, fearing it will be blocked by Israeli protesters”.
This is according to Israeli Army Radio correspondent Doron Kadosh.

The Israeli military hopes the location of the new crossing, to be built in northern Gaza, but in a less central location, will make it difficult for protesters to block the entry of aid into the besieged Palestinian enclave, he reported.

Mags48 · 10/04/2024 15:15

The aid has only significantly increased because Israel has control of all of the crossings and has blocked / severely limited aid that is allowed in. They’ve only started to allow more aid in because Biden & co have piled on the pressure given the risk of imminent famine.

Hardly a reason to congratulate Israel given that they are the reason people are being starved to death.

https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/gaza-hunger-figures-worst-record-says-oxfam

Gaza hunger figures “worst on record” - says Oxfam | Oxfam International

https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/gaza-hunger-figures-worst-record-says-oxfam

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