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Conflict in the Middle East
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45
Parkingt111 · 11/02/2024 15:24

I don't think it can be said that every single member of the IDF kill or injure without reason but there has been recorded instances of when they have. So it's not unreasonable to think they didn't need a reason to shoot at the car Hind was travelling in.
I posted earlier in the week of a soldier who took a video to advertise his barbers shop with dead Palestinians in the background.
The instagram page of the barbers shop in Israel then posted that same sick video on their story to promote the shop.
It's from amongst one of the worst videos I have seen in terms of how sadistic in nature it is.

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240207-israeli-soldier-films-ad-with-palestinian-bodies/

stomachameleon · 11/02/2024 15:25

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

BackandForthRoundandRound · 11/02/2024 15:25

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3KL4_3Acbu/?igsh=MWVnd2g1MWUyOGF2Nw== The Israeli Occupation Force has closed the gates of Nasser Hospital with sand.

Instagram

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3KL4_3Acbu?igsh=MWVnd2g1MWUyOGF2Nw%3D%3D

BabaBarrio · 11/02/2024 15:26

Humdingerydoo · 11/02/2024 15:21

So for almost two weeks, no one knew what had happened to Hind and the two ambulance drivers. No one knew if they were dead or alive. Yet all of a sudden everyone knows for certain that they were maliciously killed by the IDF. Despite there being no witnesses (because if there had been witnesses, we would obviously have known a lot sooner that they were dead). So no witnesses yet we all apparently know what happened, and anyone who dares say that we don't know what happened is accused of all sorts of terrible things and ridiculed.

That’s not really true. For 12 days, Hind’s car and the ambulance were in a closed military zone controlled by the IDF who would not allow anyone in or out. They knew exactly where they were because it had been geolocated and the PRCS had coordinated, and gotten permission from the IDF to send an ambulance to that location to rescue Hind.

No one wanted to accuse IDF of having killed them in the zone they controlled, they hoped perhaps the IDF had rescued Hind and detained the ambulance crew.

Then IDF withdrew from the zone and allowed PRCS into it. PRCS found the vehicles and bodies. There are photos online of the vehicles.

IDF knew what had happened but were silent for 12 days and are continuing to stay silent apart from saying they are looking into the incident.

stomachameleon · 11/02/2024 15:26

@ProfessorPipsqueak demands for evidence in the face of atrocities work both ways.

ProfessorPipsqueak · 11/02/2024 15:27

stomachameleon · 11/02/2024 15:26

@ProfessorPipsqueak demands for evidence in the face of atrocities work both ways.

It really doesn't seem to on here.

Humdingerydoo · 11/02/2024 15:29

I'm not going to bother discussing the ethnic cleansing of Jews with a poster who is partly minimising and partly denying it happened. But for everyone else reading, it is a well known fact that 900 000ish Jews were ethnically cleansed from various Arab nations. That does not include Jewish refugees from Europe following the Holocaust. Denying it is an odd thing to do, but it's not surprising seeing as there are also people who deny the Holocaust. It's just one of those things, I guess! Not entirely surprisingly, I haven't seen any pro-Palestinian posters standing up to the ethnic cleansing deniers on here. I'm hoping it's because they just don't know enough about it, but since I've been on this board a while and I know this has been discussed multiple times before, I'm not so sure.

BabaBarrio · 11/02/2024 15:30

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

BabaBarrio · 11/02/2024 15:40

Humdingerydoo · 11/02/2024 15:29

I'm not going to bother discussing the ethnic cleansing of Jews with a poster who is partly minimising and partly denying it happened. But for everyone else reading, it is a well known fact that 900 000ish Jews were ethnically cleansed from various Arab nations. That does not include Jewish refugees from Europe following the Holocaust. Denying it is an odd thing to do, but it's not surprising seeing as there are also people who deny the Holocaust. It's just one of those things, I guess! Not entirely surprisingly, I haven't seen any pro-Palestinian posters standing up to the ethnic cleansing deniers on here. I'm hoping it's because they just don't know enough about it, but since I've been on this board a while and I know this has been discussed multiple times before, I'm not so sure.

No it’s not a well known fact, because it is not fact that anywhere near 900,000(ish) Jews were ethnically cleansed. All the links posted to the history state this.

Haven’t you heard of the One Million Plan?
“As a result of the withdrawal of British forces and the declaration of the State of Israel in May 1948, the immigration restrictions to the country were removed, making it possible to implement the policy changes relating to large-scale Aliyah focused on Jews from Arab and Muslim countries.[10] Ben Gurion's government subsequently presented the Knesset with a plan to double the population of 600,000 within four years.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Million_Plan

or the Aaliyah?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliyah

Read the history, they were not all refugees being ethically cleansed. Your 900,000 number is all that I have denied as fact.

BackandForthRoundandRound · 11/02/2024 15:42

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3Lz7L9JNo4/?igsh=MWlmaWU2bnE2MnJvZw== A newborn baby. Who is in a tent. In the cold. In the area where Netanyahu is wanting to destroy. Which some people couldn't care less about. I am sure it would be different if things were the other way around. All lives are equal. But remember this newborn baby.

Instagram

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3Lz7L9JNo4?igsh=MWlmaWU2bnE2MnJvZw%3D%3D

Humdingerydoo · 11/02/2024 15:49

BabaBarrio · 11/02/2024 15:40

No it’s not a well known fact, because it is not fact that anywhere near 900,000(ish) Jews were ethnically cleansed. All the links posted to the history state this.

Haven’t you heard of the One Million Plan?
“As a result of the withdrawal of British forces and the declaration of the State of Israel in May 1948, the immigration restrictions to the country were removed, making it possible to implement the policy changes relating to large-scale Aliyah focused on Jews from Arab and Muslim countries.[10] Ben Gurion's government subsequently presented the Knesset with a plan to double the population of 600,000 within four years.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Million_Plan

or the Aaliyah?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliyah

Read the history, they were not all refugees being ethically cleansed. Your 900,000 number is all that I have denied as fact.

I guess by your logic Jews who left Europe from the 1930s up until the end of WW2 also shouldn't be considered to have been forcibly displaced or even as refugees? Because after all, they had a choice in the matter - they could have stayed. Or does that ridiculous argument only apply to Arab Jews?

BabaBarrio · 11/02/2024 15:54

Humdingerydoo · 11/02/2024 15:49

I guess by your logic Jews who left Europe from the 1930s up until the end of WW2 also shouldn't be considered to have been forcibly displaced or even as refugees? Because after all, they had a choice in the matter - they could have stayed. Or does that ridiculous argument only apply to Arab Jews?

The Holocaust was the Holocaust there is nothing it can be compared to without minimising the horror of it. I would never compare it to the varied reasons for emigration over 70yrs within one region, especially not when most of it is referred to by Israel as the Aliyah from “making aliyah” or going up in the world by ascending to the homeland.

BabaBarrio · 11/02/2024 15:57

Humdingerydoo · 11/02/2024 15:49

I guess by your logic Jews who left Europe from the 1930s up until the end of WW2 also shouldn't be considered to have been forcibly displaced or even as refugees? Because after all, they had a choice in the matter - they could have stayed. Or does that ridiculous argument only apply to Arab Jews?

As a reminder, in your initial post with the 900,000 number you specifically excluded all Holocaust survivors and refugees which were from Europe, Russia and the Nazi occupied parts of North Africa.

Humdingerydoo · 11/02/2024 16:03

I'm aware the 900 000 forcibly displaced Jews I've mentioned don't include European ones. I'm just wondering why you seem to think the European Jews were right to leave as they were under obvious threat, but deny that being the case for the Arab Jews. Did you know that even before Israel was established, Jews weren't allowed to attend university in Iraq? Jews were second-class citizens. It said in their travel documents that they were Jewish, which then prevented them from visiting any neighbouring towns or cities. Does that not sound quite similar to Germany in the early 30s? Yet you consider those who left economic migrants 🥴

Notsuretoputit · 11/02/2024 16:09

BabaBarrio · 11/02/2024 15:57

As a reminder, in your initial post with the 900,000 number you specifically excluded all Holocaust survivors and refugees which were from Europe, Russia and the Nazi occupied parts of North Africa.

Edited

900,000 is an accurate number. Why are you so desperate to deny that?

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-refugees-from-arab-countries?utm_content=cmp-true

https://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/news/the-expulsion-of-jews-from-arab-countries-and-iran--an-untold-history

https://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1881&context=ilj

I can’t think of any reason as to why you’d want to deny that 900,000 Jewish people were forced from Arab countries during the 20th century.

Jewish Refugees from Arab Countries

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-refugees-from-arab-countries?utm_content=cmp-true

BabaBarrio · 11/02/2024 16:10

Humdingerydoo · 11/02/2024 16:03

I'm aware the 900 000 forcibly displaced Jews I've mentioned don't include European ones. I'm just wondering why you seem to think the European Jews were right to leave as they were under obvious threat, but deny that being the case for the Arab Jews. Did you know that even before Israel was established, Jews weren't allowed to attend university in Iraq? Jews were second-class citizens. It said in their travel documents that they were Jewish, which then prevented them from visiting any neighbouring towns or cities. Does that not sound quite similar to Germany in the early 30s? Yet you consider those who left economic migrants 🥴

So Iraq is now the entire Middle East?

Humdingerydoo · 11/02/2024 16:13

BabaBarrio · 11/02/2024 16:10

So Iraq is now the entire Middle East?

No, that's just the country I know the most about so it's the one I talk about. Feel free to do your own research on the ethnic cleansing of Jews in other Arab countries though. I know you've already been on Wikipedia, but there are other resources readily available as well.

BabaBarrio · 11/02/2024 16:14

Notsuretoputit · 11/02/2024 16:09

900,000 is an accurate number. Why are you so desperate to deny that?

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-refugees-from-arab-countries?utm_content=cmp-true

https://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/news/the-expulsion-of-jews-from-arab-countries-and-iran--an-untold-history

https://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1881&context=ilj

I can’t think of any reason as to why you’d want to deny that 900,000 Jewish people were forced from Arab countries during the 20th century.

These are not mainstream historical sources. In addition, they use population demographics to arrive at a speculated number of refugees. I prefer the earlier sources you linked as well as the ones I linked, which are mainstream and better sourced.

tenbob · 11/02/2024 16:15

Humdingerydoo · 11/02/2024 16:03

I'm aware the 900 000 forcibly displaced Jews I've mentioned don't include European ones. I'm just wondering why you seem to think the European Jews were right to leave as they were under obvious threat, but deny that being the case for the Arab Jews. Did you know that even before Israel was established, Jews weren't allowed to attend university in Iraq? Jews were second-class citizens. It said in their travel documents that they were Jewish, which then prevented them from visiting any neighbouring towns or cities. Does that not sound quite similar to Germany in the early 30s? Yet you consider those who left economic migrants 🥴

Gosh, that all sounds remarkably similar to another group of people
Travel documents to leave their area or visit other towns, unable to attend university- what is that reminding me of? Someone jog my memory

BabaBarrio · 11/02/2024 16:16

Humdingerydoo · 11/02/2024 16:13

No, that's just the country I know the most about so it's the one I talk about. Feel free to do your own research on the ethnic cleansing of Jews in other Arab countries though. I know you've already been on Wikipedia, but there are other resources readily available as well.

I have done research, that’s how I know your 900,000 number is inflated. Don’t know why you are insisting that every census change in Jewish population within countries represents a Jewish refugee fleeing for their life despite historical evidence to that that is only a part of a much larger picture which includes economic migrants.

Notsuretoputit · 11/02/2024 16:20

BabaBarrio · 11/02/2024 16:14

These are not mainstream historical sources. In addition, they use population demographics to arrive at a speculated number of refugees. I prefer the earlier sources you linked as well as the ones I linked, which are mainstream and better sourced.

The Jewish Virtual Library and World Jewish Congress aren’t mainstream historical sources?

Let’s try Wikipedia then. Is that mainstream enough? Why are you so desperate to deny that 900,000 Jewish people were forced out of arab countries?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world

Jewish exodus from the Muslim world - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world

Notsuretoputit · 11/02/2024 16:22

tenbob · 11/02/2024 16:15

Gosh, that all sounds remarkably similar to another group of people
Travel documents to leave their area or visit other towns, unable to attend university- what is that reminding me of? Someone jog my memory

If you’re suggesting that Israel was stopping Gazan people going to university or travelling between towns they weren’t.

BabaBarrio · 11/02/2024 16:26

Notsuretoputit · 11/02/2024 16:20

The Jewish Virtual Library and World Jewish Congress aren’t mainstream historical sources?

Let’s try Wikipedia then. Is that mainstream enough? Why are you so desperate to deny that 900,000 Jewish people were forced out of arab countries?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world

That’s the same link I posted earlier and quoted from. I can do it again. See
The reasons for the exoduses are manifold, including: pull factors, such as the desire to fulfill Zionism, find a better economic status and a secure home in either Israel or Europe and the Americas, and the Israeli government's implementation of official policy in favour of the "One Million Plan" to focus on accommodating Jewish immigrants from Arab- and Muslim-majority countries;[17]and push factors, such as antisemitism, persecution, and pogroms, political instability,[18] poverty,[18] and expulsion. The history of the exodus has been politicized, given its proposed relevance to the historical narrative of the Arab–Israeli conflict.[19][20] When presenting the history, those who view the Jewish exodus as analogous to the 1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight generally emphasize the push factors and consider those who left to have been refugees, while those who oppose that view generally emphasize the pull factors and consider the Jews to have been willing immigrants, sometimes positing a "malicious Zionist conspiracy" to explain the exodus.[21]

Are you going to read it this time??

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