Eliminate Hamas……At any the cost ?

[Itoosurvive]

Israel’s aim is to eliminate Hamas’ fighters.

So far it has cost 25,000 Palestinian lives.
Approximately 300 members of the IDF have been killed.
According to US intelligence (Rad 4 news 18.00 21-1-2024) between 20% and 30% of Hamas' fighters have been killed.
Approximately 65% of buildings have been destroyed.

So, the IDF is about a quarter of the way through the task they have been set.
The following question is directed at anyone who supports the current campaign to remove Hamas.

When does the loss of life become great enough to call a halt to the operation, or should it carry on until Hamas is eliminated, regardless of the cost?

edit, Title should read "At any cost"

The Israeli Government. will never destroy Hamas in this way. It is an ideology. Brutalising the population as they are doing will just strengthen it. They may temporarily destroy Hamas' military infrastructure, but that isn't what makes them a threat, as 7/10 showed. It the presence of angry men with no regard for either their own or other lives, and the bombing of Gaza is increasing the population that either Hamas or its successor can draw from. There needs to be political negotiations that drive a wedge between Hamas and the population and offer them a real hope of peace and a secure future.

Heard someone discussing this issue earlier on. Can't remember who but the gist of it was that it's impossible to eliminate Hamas as it's an idea. I think that the point is if you suppress a people they will resist in one way or another. Even if it's in 10 or 20 years time and called something different. If course it does depend on your objectives.

I see you have failed to notice the irony of an "apartheid state" being pursued through the courts by an ACTUAL, albeit historic, apartheid state (SA)
SA is governed by the people who suffered under the apartheid regime, not by the ones who inflicted it.

I wonder if it will end with some form of interim government if neither Israel or the Palestinians can keep the population safe? How or who will oversee the area going forward I can’t imagine, but this can’t go on much longer can it?

To quote yourself, evidence please.
Tens of thousands? Yes, that needs rather concrete evidence from more than one reputable source.

I am Jewish and the descendent of Holocaust survivors and I hate when people like @PiersPlowman11 act as though because Israel was founded after the holocaust it somehow has the right to do this. As far as I'm concerned Israel's actions desecrate the memories of my family members murdered by the Nazis, it's revolting to think they should should be justified because of the suffering of the victims of the Shoah. We know what it is to be under the whip-hand, and now Israel has become it.

And it's all the more awful because Israel is in so many ways an amazing country - so creative, vibrant and cultured. Before anyone barrels in with 'You hate Israel'. Yet it does this.

Israel has the intelligence resources to know Hamas are not sheltering under every building in Gaza and to have taken a different approach. There's just no justification for the scale of Israel's response, vile as October 7th was, but this is sheer revenge against the people of Gaza that some of the families of October 7th victims have bravely decried, not a targeted attack on Hamas aggressors.

What I don't understand is why the destruction of Gaza is necessary to "eradicate Hamas" when 1) most of the leadership aren't there and 2) Israel are more than capable of surgical strikes when required (see the Syria attacks at the weekend).

I would have thought there were more effective strategies, so I question whether the war in Gaza is entirely about getting rid of Hamas.

Just about to report that personal attack, thank you who ever deleted it.

Thank you very much for your post. It was very moving.
The reasoning that, because Jewish people were the victims of the Holocaust, their government cannot commit genocide is difficult for me to understand as it is illogical.
I am not Jewish but my family, on both side, suffered from the Nazi occupation. I wouldn't inflict what they went through on anyone else, because I would then become the monster they so despised.

The alternative is to stop the campaign now, thus saving lives.

Surely it's not beyond the wit of the UN or some other body go into Gaza to ensure that Hamas don't rearm. Meanwhile, negotiate. And before you say "Hamas won't negotiate", you don't know that, do you?

Well said.

If Israel were to "stop the campaign, thus saving lives" as you say, it is akin to suicide. Hamas intend to eradicate every single Israeli.
Just this morning there were rockets fired into Israel from Hamas. Every country has a duty to protect its people. So until Hamas are demilitarised and the hostages returned, Israel will keep on fighting.

Untitled mum wrote;
"If Israel were to "stop the campaign, thus saving lives" as you say, it is akin to suicide. Hamas intend to eradicate every single Israeli."

The idea that Palestinian terrorist organisations have the capability to drive Israel into the sea has been a myth perpetuated for decades. It’s a useful one for Israel and its supporters to cultivate because it gives the country an excuse for dealing harshly with its adversaries, just as it is doing so now.

I don't know why anyone would want to negotiate with them. I agree- peacekeeping force then negotiate with the Palestinians in Gaza to set up a new administration. Hamas can do one.

Just this morning no doubt Israel bombed and killed Gazan civilians. Why is one ok and one not, in a war?

Aaaaaaand we’re back to forever war.

fyi for anyone that really wants to know what Israel’s intent is please watch this video. It’s of Israeli families gathering at the Gaza border in preparation to create Jewish settlements. Their signs read “conquering, settling, winning.”

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2fJ412uQDE/?igsh=dGFpYmhpbDc4cTEx

@AdamRyan Trust me I'm no lover of Hamas, but I don't know why anyone would negotiate with Netanyahu. He has intentionally derailed peace in the region, supported violent settlers and committed war crimes. That's before we even mention the corruption charges and incitement to hatred when Rabin was PM.

War is damaging and a ceasefire takes 2 sides. So instead of demanding that only Israel to stop the campaign as @Itoosurvive stated, ask Hamas to ceasefire too. And perhaps return the hostages as well.
Its this only holding Israel accountable that is so disturbing.

You kind of gave your game away by directing the question at ‘anyone who supports the current campaign to remove Hamas’ while stating Israel’s aim is to eliminate Hamas ‘fighters’ rather than the usual rhetoric of accusing them of committing genocide.

Can we deduce from that you don’t support the campaign to remove Hamas and you perceive them as ‘fighters’ rather than terrorists who inflicted barbaric and indiscriminate mass atrocities on civilian men, women and children?

Perhaps the question should be does anyone who doesn’t support the Israel’s current campaign to remove Hamas’s fighters think that Hamas should stop hiding behind civilians and hostages, scuttling down tunnels, identify themselves as who they are and come out and fight in the open like the ‘fighters’ you have proclaimed them to be?

That would massively have reduced civilian casualties and suffering, and the duration of this conflict no?

Funny how there are no calls for that despite Hamas apparently having the power to negotiate ceasefires on the world stage.

@FrozenWindscreen
You kind of gave your game away by directing the question at ‘anyone who supports the current campaign to remove Hamas’ while stating Israel’s aim is to eliminate Hamas ‘fighters’ rather than the usual rhetoric of accusing them of committing genocide.

There was no "game" simply a question pertinent to the conflict.

Can we deduce from that you don’t support the campaign to remove Hamas

I would like to see them removed, but not using the current methods. they are too costly.

and you perceive them as ‘fighters’ rather than terrorists who inflicted barbaric and indiscriminate mass atrocities on civilian men, women and children?

They are terrorists who do that, yes. But I didn't detail their terrorism as it wasn't relevant to the question I was posing

Perhaps the question should be does anyone who doesn’t support the Israel’s current campaign to remove Hamas’s fighters think that Hamas should stop hiding behind civilians and hostages, scuttling down tunnels, identify themselves as who they are and come out and fight in the open like the ‘fighters’ you have proclaimed them to be?

It's a good question. Scroll up to the top right of your screen and there'll be an option for you to "Start new thread"

That would massively have reduced civilian casualties and suffering, and the duration of this conflict no?

You're right, an immediate surrender by Hamas would have prevented all of this. Perhaps they should have done so. Start your thread and I'll contribute.

Funny how there are no calls for that despite Hamas apparently having the power to negotiate ceasefires on the world stage.

Not quite sure of the point that you're making here. Sorry.