Eliminate Hamas……At any the cost ?

[Itoosurvive]

Israel’s aim is to eliminate Hamas’ fighters.

So far it has cost 25,000 Palestinian lives.
Approximately 300 members of the IDF have been killed.
According to US intelligence (Rad 4 news 18.00 21-1-2024) between 20% and 30% of Hamas' fighters have been killed.
Approximately 65% of buildings have been destroyed.

So, the IDF is about a quarter of the way through the task they have been set.
The following question is directed at anyone who supports the current campaign to remove Hamas.

When does the loss of life become great enough to call a halt to the operation, or should it carry on until Hamas is eliminated, regardless of the cost?

edit, Title should read "At any cost"

I think if I posted "that's tragic....but" about the rapes of Israeli women I'd get called anti semitic, no?

There is no excuse for gunning down a family trying to follow orders to move, is there? And if the IDF crushed the car with a child alive in it, there is no excuse for that either, is there?

Plus, I really would prefer if you didn't try to play "gruesome death top trumps" with Israeli victims. Its disrespectful to the dead in my opinion.

This.

were you aware Palestinians have been raped by idf before 7-10? Is one scenario worse than the other one? Better ?

When?

@AdamRyan "There is no excuse for gunning down a family trying to follow orders to move, is there? And if the IDF crushed the car with a child alive in it, there is no excuse for that either, is there?"

If there is proof these scenarios happened, no there is no excuse.

The ICJ will have to see proof before they make a judgement. We are not in a position to judge.

https://www.savethechildren.net/news/stripped-beaten-and-blindfolded-new-research-reveals-ongoing-violence-and-abuse-palestinian

https://www.mintpressnews.com/humiliation-rape-untold-story-israel-abuse-palestinian-women/285686/

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-officer-who-raped-palestinian-was-not-dismissed-for-earlier-sexual-offenses/amp/

i can search more for you but all from before 7-oct

So my opinion one doesn’t make the other one better , that there is a child currently missing cannot justified with “Hamas started this by raping women on 7-10”. Both are despicable. And also , no this didn’t start with Hamas 7-10. This has been happening for years

It's funny how some posters are quick to believe the allegations made against the UNWRA by Israel without proof but will demand proof for the atrocities that Israel have committed before they believe it.

Did you read the article lana? Are you claiming the BBC and all the sources in there are lying?

Again, I'm pretty sure if i said that about the treatment of Israeli hostages I'd get called anti semitic

Absolutely this.

Awful to respond to a post about a heartbreaking incident, particularly about a child, with a "but..." followed by an atrocity from the other 'side'.

It sums up everything wrong with the discourse around the whole situation.

I presume these abusers have been caught, tried and are now in Israeli jails?

I don't recall anyone catching or trying the Hamas rapists, they just got away with it.

They just got away with it.

not sure id say “get away with it” when there is a war currently going with 30k death. When we don’t know the name of those that committed the rape so unsure whether they’re death or not.

Red Crescent quote from Daily Beast:

"Our ambulance team went to rescue her yesterday evening, but they have not returned as of now, we lost contact with them about 18 hours ago, and we still remain unaware of their fate and whether they succeeded in evacuating her or not.”

So no-one knows if she was evacuated or not.

But you keep moving the goal posts @Lanabigbanana

You asked for evidence of the crimes and were given multiple examples of them.

Then you've again responded with a comparison to Hamas.

Hamas being disgusting, cruel terrorists doesn't negate the behaviour of any Israeli who has also done disgusting, cruel things.

So I'm unsure why your go-to response to IDF / Israeli crimes is always an example of Hamas' crimes.

@Lanabigbanana

I don't recall anyone catching or trying the Hamas rapists, they just got away with it.

They may not have been caught yet but the IDF has been tasked with finding every Hamas fighter even if it takes the deaths of tens of thousands of Palestinians caught in the crossfire.

I'm baffled as to how you see that as 'getting away with it' as if there have been no consequences?

The consequences have been mass civilian casualties including thousands of children.

Newspaper reports aren't 'evidence'. I asked for 'evidence'.

Remember the reports from the Iraq War about babies being thrown out of incubators?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1994/02/26/the-kuwaiti-incubator-hoax/35b1e882-f796-4acb-a106-9280a7dda521/

Hamas took bodycam footage of what they did, that's 'evidence.'

IDF recovered footage from CCTV cameras on houses, that's 'evidence.'

Both the above recordings were shown to a selection of journalists, but not released to the general media.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67198270

If the ICJ investigates this war the IDF will have to provide bodycam footage from it's personnel. That's 'evidence'.

So are you going to say to any person that has been raped to proof they’ve been raped with a video or they won’t be believed?
there is no point arguing with you.

I'm sorry @Lanabigbanana but it genuinely feels like whatever anyone says about IDF / Israel committing crimes, your response would always, always be to respond with a 'but Hamas' post.

When many (the vast majority) of us think Hamas are disgusting, cruel terrorists. And we can think that and also think that Israel's behaviour and the loss of tens of thousands of Palestinian lives, many of whom are children, is an atrocity that is inexcusable.

It's perfectly possible to think that the behaviour of Hamas and Israel in this situation is disgusting, cruel and horrific without thinking that as individuals the vast majority of Palestinians or Israelis are anything of the sort.

To be crystal clear when I say Hamas and Israel, I mean the Israeli powers that be, not individual Israelis.

I can't say what the standard for prosecution by the ICJ is.

As you are aware, rape is a difficult crime to prosecute, remember the Chad Evans debacle ?

One of the hardest parts of a rape prosecution in UK can often be proving that the defendant did not have a reasonable belief in consent. This requires them to prove what a defendant was thinking when the incident happened and whether the belief formed was reasonable.

'but Hamas' needs to be shouted far and wide when you have idiots like this who go on marches not knowing what they are protesting about and who don't know what Hamas did.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/11/09/protesters-pro-palestine-march-not-sure-hamas-invade-israel/

OK I'll try again.
Legal proof of rape is different to a rape victims experience of it.

Commentators who demanded "legal proof" of the rape of Israeli women on 7th July were rightly called antisemitic.

Why are you implying it's different in this case and what does ched Evans/reasonable belief have to do with it?

The fact that the Israeli government does not allow international journalists in Gaza and has targeted Palestinian ones tells you everything you need to know.
I fear that what we know so far is just the tip of the iceberg.
I hope I am proved wrong.

and the IDF surely. It does seem that their actions of indiscriminate killings and the torture of civilians is not just down to the Israeli Government.