Eliminate Hamas……At any the cost ?

[Itoosurvive]

Israel’s aim is to eliminate Hamas’ fighters.

So far it has cost 25,000 Palestinian lives.
Approximately 300 members of the IDF have been killed.
According to US intelligence (Rad 4 news 18.00 21-1-2024) between 20% and 30% of Hamas' fighters have been killed.
Approximately 65% of buildings have been destroyed.

So, the IDF is about a quarter of the way through the task they have been set.
The following question is directed at anyone who supports the current campaign to remove Hamas.

When does the loss of life become great enough to call a halt to the operation, or should it carry on until Hamas is eliminated, regardless of the cost?

edit, Title should read "At any cost"

hamas attacked Israel, Hamas need to give back the hostages and bodies.

@Lanabigbanana "Israel the only democracy in the Middle East" 😂😂😂

There were a few rulings against Israel

• That South Africa has standing (Israel said they didn’t)
• That the ICJ has jurisdiction in the matter (Israel said they didn’t)
• That this is a dispute for which a court case can be made including a full investigation and final ruling (Israel said it wasn’t a dispute and the case should be dismissed)
• That there was risk of genocide and other violations of the Geneva convention occurring in Gaza (Israel said this was preposterous slander made by Hamas supporters)
• That this risk was not only real, but urgent enough such that preliminary measures were necessary (Israel argued as there is zero risk, the court should not issue any measures)
• Israel is to submit a report to ICJ in a month on progress adhering to the preliminary measures
• ICJ reserves right to reconvene if preliminary measures not adhered to, and issue further measures and/or move for enforcement via the UNSC.

The only bit that the ICJ did not agree with South Africa on was issuing a preliminary measure calling for an immediate ceasefire.

? Israel isn’t the only democracy in the Middle East, or even in Israel! The Palestinian Authority is democratic as all its officials are elected.

But you want all Israelis punished, as they would be in your UN military dictatorship master plan.

I don’t want a UN Mandate, but why not a UN peacekeeping force?

It is acceptable in Lebanon
It is acceptable in Cyprus
It is acceptable in Kosovo
It is acceptable in the Kashmir
It is acceptable in the DRC
It is acceptable in the CAR
It is acceptable in Sudan
It is acceptable in Abyei
It is acceptable in the Western Sahara

Is it punishment, or is it multinational assistance?

@MercanDede "Palestinian Authority is democratic as all its officials are elected."

So what country do they govern ??

Well I wouldn't agree that these are 'rulings', but assuming they are, how can ICJ enforce them?

Yeah exactly. That's not a "UN Dictatorship" and I think its a good idea

Is a court ruling only a ruling if its enforceable in your mind?

I think countries that have signed up to the ICJ should feel morally/ethically bound to comply with its findings, regardless of enforcement capability

I would see criminals punished for their crimes. I find it odd that you keep insisting anything beyond that. Is it that you think all Israelis are criminal or is it that you think some Israelis should be exempt or that you think no Israeli can do wrong?

It’s simple really, if you perpetrate hideous war crimes then I think you should be held accountable for that just as people have been where they have been found guilty in previous wars. If people are innocent they presumably would be well placed to rebuild.

Honestly I think there will already be a terrible toll on everyone involved. How you move forwards from watching your homes and families broken and destroyed is difficult to imagine and how those doing these things will ever recover from what they have done to others is beyond me.

You want Israel to be invaded and placed under a military dictatorship right down to local government level with citizens having no say in how their country is run. That is punishing all Israeli citizens. Particuarly the elected officials you want imprisoned at gun point.

Did any of these violently overthrow the elected government as well as local government and judiciary, run the entire government and prevent any kind of elections taking place indefinitely?

Is a court ruling only a ruling if its enforceable in your mind?

Yes, otherwise it's a waste of time giving it and makes the Court no more than a 'toothless watchdog'.

It’s not a true judicial system. It is primarily politicians using it to attack other countries from a political perspective.
To be a true and Bonafide Judicial System you need to be a part of a single government with absolute checks and balances,
The world does not have a single government; instead, it has multiple countries all trying to dominate the ICC, and the IJC. There is no common interest of collective countries comprised of multiple governments, as there would be with a single government.
Both ICC and IJC are extremely ineffective as their member countries argue amongst themselves and in many cases, have never concluded their arguments. In those rare cases where they actually do come to a decision - then who carries out the remedy, the punishment, or the sentencing?

I think countries that have signed up to the ICJ should feel morally/ethically bound to comply with its findings, regardless of enforcement capability

That's your opinion.

They don’t have a country as Palestinians have been denied a nation state, but they do administratively govern the West Bank as a democracy. If they were to take back Gaza and get East Jerusalem, and a two state solution implemented, the PA is already democratic and so would graduate to democratically ruling a sovereign state instead of democratically administrating an illegally occupied territory.

3rd repetition- ICJ rulings are enforced by the UNSC.

@TomeTome "How you move forwards from watching your homes and families broken and destroyed is difficult to imagine and how those doing these things will ever recover from what they have done to others is beyond me."

I think you are either very naive or have selective compassion.

As I type there are multiple armed conflicts in progress around the world, causing incalculable deaths, disease, terror and destruction to civilians and combatants alike.

I have to wonder why some people don't focus more on these? Or maybe some people just like a bit of Jew-bashing?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflicts

3rd question - how?

Please tell me how all the 'rulings' from ICJ, that have been listed, will be enforced ?

Why don’t you focus more on these, you can start a thread? Seems odd you would castigate others for selective compassion when you are talking about the same conflicts they are on MN. Sounds more like a self-criticism to me.

By the UNSC.
Hint, the first Gulf War was a UNSC enforcement action.

@Lanabigbanana I'm interested in the "how" as well

The same UNSC that has the right of veto for the 5 permanent members

The same UNSC that asked Russia to withdraw from their illegal invasion of of Ukraine and then were powerless when Russia just carried on (and used their veto to thumb their noses at the rest of the UNSC)

That UNSC?

I wouldn't hold my breath there

Say what now? If your local government are war criminals then they should of course be tried.

What do you want @LasPlagas for them to be exempt while everyone else takes responsibility for what they have done?

Didn't you say earlier on that you think k the whole government plus local government and judiciary should be arrested? As well as the whole Knesset? As part and parcel of your whole plan to get rid of all democracy on Israel.

Which members of Israeli local government do you think are war criminals?

People talk about the behaviour and politics everywhere. This particular discussion is about the conflict in Gaza.

Do quote where I said that, I think it’s more something shouted in response to what I do think which is that governments who behave as the present Israeli government is behaving, should be held responsible for what they do and if they are found to be guilty of war crimes should of course be expected to see the consequences of those actions.