Eliminate Hamas……At any the cost ?

[Itoosurvive]

Israel’s aim is to eliminate Hamas’ fighters.

So far it has cost 25,000 Palestinian lives.
Approximately 300 members of the IDF have been killed.
According to US intelligence (Rad 4 news 18.00 21-1-2024) between 20% and 30% of Hamas' fighters have been killed.
Approximately 65% of buildings have been destroyed.

So, the IDF is about a quarter of the way through the task they have been set.
The following question is directed at anyone who supports the current campaign to remove Hamas.

When does the loss of life become great enough to call a halt to the operation, or should it carry on until Hamas is eliminated, regardless of the cost?

edit, Title should read "At any cost"

It is not "Jew bashing" to be appalled by the humanitarian crisis caused by what Israel are doing in Gaza. Its also not comparable to any other crisis as the population of Gaza are stateless and trapped there with no ability to evacuate.

You aren't helping Jewish people by endlessly equating criticism of the Israeli government with Jewish people as a whole.

Between 50 and 61% of buildings in Gaza have now been destroyed. A lot of farmland has also been destroyed, previously being used to produce food for Gazans. 80% of the population of 2.5m people displaced.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68006607

Acceptable cost of "eradicating Hamas"?

The pictures in that report are very informative to those who want to deny the scale of the destruction

26/01/2024 13:34, although you never explained how many members of the Knesset and local governments are criminals and why you would replace them with UN peacekeepers rather than holding more elections.

So how exactly would your little plan work? Would it jusr be the cabinet who are arrested and replaced with foreign military personnel then? Because you seemed to be saying earlier that there would be no democracy which kind of implies the whole Knesset and possibly local government has to go.

TBH I don't think you've thought this through.

I've just scrolled back and she said no such thing. Just made the rookie mistake of answering questions assuming it was a discussion.

I have no idea why you want to frame a suggestion by a random Internet poster regarding a UN interim government as a strawman implying she thinks Israel should be invaded by the UN. But its not adding much to the debate and probably not worth fighting about?

Here's what she actually said, to save anyone else the faff

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2024/jan/30/how-war-destroyed-gazas-neighbourhoods-visual-investigation?

Fairly senior papa to the rescue.

Because he/she does want Israel to be invaded by the UN. Unless they (or you) think the government and the rest of the knesset will just hand over power to a foreign agency.

and yet in the very post you quoted I said

it would be infinitely preferable for the killing to stop and things to be settled internally in a safe and just way.

Maybe just read what’s written?

We are random Internet posters with an opinion. None of us have the power to make it so, so demanding we explain exactly how its going to work (whilst simultaneously strawmanning/misrepresenting) is fruitless and ultimately not adding to the debate.

I'm not responding on this again, just wanted to highlight the pattern.

@Lanabigbanana none of the countries on that map have had anything like the mortality, displacement (if you consider % of the population) or distruction in a similar time period in any relatively recent period (you can check the figures with OCHA). And none of them are actively supported by our own Government.

I don't see how that condtradicts what I've said. You seem to think the only solution is the Israeli government being overthrown and democracy being stopped.

he/she does want Israel to be invaded by the UN.

is nowhere near the same sentiment as

it would be infinitely preferable for the killing to stop and things to be settled internally in a safe and just way.

I can see there is a communication problem but I can’t see what it is.

From the Haaretz EN news ticker:

Israeli Army Admits It's Flooding Hamas Tunnels in Gaza in Bid to Destroy Them
The IDF announced that it has flooded tunnels in the Gaza Strip in an effort to destroy them. Prior to this, reports of this have surfaced in media abroad, but Israel had not confirmed the reports.

According to the army, flooding tunnels has been used only in locations suitable for this method, without impairing the use of groundwater. The IDF added that pumps and pipes were installed in the Gaza Strip for this purpose.

Last month, the U.S. newspaper Wall Street Journal reported that Israel had begun pumping seawater into tunnels. Three American sources who spoke to the newspaper at the time said the process is expected to last weeks and that Israel is using seven pumps.

I thought they believed their hostages to be in those tunnels? They better have iron clad proof that they have verified none of them are in there - or the families will tear them to shreds! And I, for one, will be cheering them on!

I might be generally pro-Palestinian - but I am most certainly "anti Hannibal doctrine".

You’re assuming they are prioritizing the safe return of the hostages when I think it’s pretty clear that’s not the government’s primary objective.

So say things are not settled internally in a safe and just way. And it seems likely everyone is going to agree to kay down their arms and be friends in the near future. Then the next step, according to you, is the aforementioned Invasion and occupation am I right?

I am not assuming that at all. In fact, I think it is pretty clear at this point that these poor people are not a priority at all:

Netanyahu just wants to stay out of jail - and thinks that a forever war is the way to do it!

Ben-Gvir, Smotrich, et al. have sensed their hour and, due to this, are seizing the opportunity to implement as much of their extreme reight-wing agenda as they manage to.

What I genuinely do not understand is why IDF generals and people like Ganz and Eisenkot would go along!

I assume the same reason various Conservative politicians go along with various bonkers UK government initiatives - because they want to stay in power and be the next leader. Human beings are depressingly predictable like that.

If everyone stopped fighting and worked towards peace why would they need a peacekeeping force? Surely the next step would be reparation? Trial and conviction of criminals? Rebuilding?

Not quite the same thing, though, because they are, technically, the opposition, not part of the regular government (just the war cabinet), and want to - presumably - be elected next time around.

That is precisely why I am so confused!

Hence why I said say things are not settled internally in a safe and just way.

Oh I didn't realise that! I thought Eisenkot was part of the same party. No idea then! Unless it's to do with playing to a particular domestic agenda...

@LasPlagas I’m really not sure what you are not understanding. Your position seems to be that the world just has to sit back and watch the slaughter because “democracy”??? WTF! Democracy means you vote for who leads your country NOT that you are allowed to do whatever the fuck you like and everyone else is horrible if they try and stop you.

Slaughter is what happened on October 7th. Going house to house with butcher knifes is a slaughter.
Bombing a building that has Hamas tunnels underneath it and Hamas snipers within it is called urban warfare. Terribly tragic too, but call it war not a slaughter.