South Africa has invoked the Genocide Convention against Israel over Gaza

[HeidiInTheBigCity]

The entire filing is 84 pages long and, frankly, took me several hours to read - it's well worth the effort, though, in that it is rather (painfully at times) clinical and devastating in equal measure: https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf

Go, South Africa!

It might not male that much of a difference in the short term - but: to see the former victims of Apartheid take the lead on the world stage, and offer support (the way they - after multiple decades of campaigning and pressure ... it's not as though world leaders hated Apartheid South Africa "by default") is just ... a little spark of light within the darkness!

When the inconvenient minority cant defend themselves... you mean Palestinians.

This.

The only mode of defense left now is to attack.

It’s not a genocide. It’s war. There are war crimes on both sides and it’s fucking terrible like all wars. Politicians wouldn’t need to be saying “ceasefire now” if Hamas hadn’t broken the ceasefire. They want Palestinians to die and for us to see it to build more anti Israel sentiment. Else they would be the ones maintaining the ceasefire and spending money on infrastructure rather than bombs. But it’s so much easier for us to see far away pictures of suffering and point fingers and virtue signal than to actually hold those responsible accountable. We are powerless. It’s up to Israel and Hamas to stop the suffering and Israel won’t while Hamas keeps stating their intent to wipe Israel off the map (aka genocide them).

Yazidis and Kurds in turkey and Syria. Pick up a history book ffs. And see the precedent.

@Weefreetiffany I remember recently the former chief prosecutor of the ICC called it a clear cut case of genocide.

When people with experience like his are speaking out, people of that level of experience, you have to take note.

Can you link to that @hollyholey
I would encourage you to look beyond the superficial and sound-bitey arguments you’re presenting so far. That former chief will have alliances and an agenda of his own and clearly isn’t the current head honcho so let’s see what his opinion is and where it’s motivated from before we take it as gospel.

Tell me a war that hasn’t been a world war in the last century that has
killed as many kids in such a short time
killes as many women in such a short time
killed as many health professionals
killed as many journalists

displaced as many people and countries not opening their doors to civilians

ps. There was no ceasefire. People were killed before 7-10

@Weefreetiffany

https://www.aljazeera.com/program/upfront/2023/12/1/former-icc-chief-prosecutor-israels-siege-of-gaza-is-a-genocide

I think I will trust his level of experience in prosecuting genocide. There's a reason he felt able to speak out - he's no longer working in that role, and as such not bound by the legal rules surrounding speaking out in public.

Of course, I realise anyone who supports Israeli govt action now will try to smear him immediately, for speaking out, like they do with everyone else who speaks out. (UN, Amnesty, HRW etc etc etc all smeared as soon as they speak up). It is getting pretty tiresome tbh.

SA foreign minister compares Ukraine and Palestine

https://twitter.com/Wandilemsomix/status/1642178059494211585

Yeah it’s horrible. But you missed my point entirely and playing the suffering card again. Forcing me to sound callous by stating other issues. There have been many wars, civil wars and genocides in the last 100 years. I’d encourage you to look at China and Cambodia for the evidence you need. The difference now is tiktok propaganda and algorithms that manipulate what we see and Hamas are playing that to their advantage.

and you’re right, despite the “ceasefire” Hamas never stopped firing rockets at Israel and the idf never stopped treating Palestinians like shit. I support neither. But where is the rest of the Middle East in supporting Palestine? Why don’t Egypt, Jordan and lebnan open their boarders?

why do we accept propaganda from anti Israel Al Jazeera (increasingly controlled by Qatar) but not from the pro Israel bbc?

@Weefreetiffany I barely look at Al Jazeera, it's mostly sky and BBC and let me tell you from what I have seen from their neutral reporting of the war has been far from 'Pro- Israel'.
Infact I have been surprised by how scathing many of their reports have been of the Israeli government and IDF and that in itself is saying something

SA foreign minister compares Ukraine and Palestine

Naledi Pandor. She has direct telephonic communication with Hamas.

True. And what’s wrong with what they discussed?
https://www.dirco.gov.za/minister-pandor-clarifies-the-content-of-her-discussion-with-the-leader-of-hamas/

Israel is only sending troops into Gaza because Hamas attacked Israel. They have been sending rockets into Israel for a long time and then we had the pogrom. If Hamas hands over their captives there will be a ceasefire, if Hamas surrenders there will be an end to the war.

There is no war in the West Bank where most Palestinians live. You can't compare Gazans to Yazidis or Ukranians.

Nelson Mandela quote.

Why is Naledi Pandor talking to a terrorist organisation is more the question.

@SomeCatFromJapan mentions this in the article
Minister Pandor’s call with the Hamas leader is in line with South Africa’s readiness to engage all interlocutors as part of facilitating dialogue to end the ongoing conflict.

there will need to be mediators in order to reach a ceasefire and a solution to the problem. Same way Qatar is helping to find a solution or usa and uk

@SuePine69 yes no war in the west bank yet hundreds of Palestinians have been killed there by the IDF since the start of the war, hundreds more injured, worshippers assaulted every Friday.
Many families kicked off their land and terrorised by the settlers, whilst the IDF does the bare minimum or nothing at all to stop it.

This has been going on for decades by the occupation forces

And people are speaking up now finally. Good for them
Until these issues are not resolved there will never be peace.

This is what a “ceasefire” looks like for Palestinians

@SuePine69 was there a ceasefire when hundreds of terrorist settlers spent a horrifying night burning the town of Huwara in what was seen as a pogrom against the Palestinians just earlier this year? What did the IDF do to stop it? Nothing, nothing at all
And how many of the perpetrators are in prison right now? Take a guess

Would the response have been the same if it was hundreds of Palestinians burning down a Israeli town?

This injustice, oppression and double standards have been going on for years
And tell me what happens when the same victims try to defend themselves? They are arrested and imprisoned without charge or trial thanks to the apartheid law that is used unjustly against the Palestinians

Nelson Mandela believed in the freedom of the Palestinians. I believe in the freedom of the Palestinians. When Israel withdrew its troops from Gaza in 2005 many countries gave large amounts of money. That was an opportunity for the people of Gaza.

If Gaza had used the money for housing the people and developing the economy then Gaza could be like Singapore or Hong Kong today. Instead they used the money for building tunnels and stocking up on rockets and other arms.

It seems to me that the Palestinians are like the Germans after the First World War. The Germans then wanted to regain their lost territories and their sense of honour. That all changed after the Second World War. They forgot about territory and honour and chose prosperity, as well as democracy and human rights.