Conflict Israel and other nearby countries

[EasterIssland]

Israel is at war with Gaza. However , this has dragged other countries in the area as well.
weve heard about the problems in West Bank (there is a thread) but also Lebanon where civilians have been killed and journalists have been targeted and killed

they’ve also attacked several airports in Siria.

ive read in the past there was a conflict as well with Yemen and read now this” Yemen's Houthis warn they will target all ships headed to Israel”

it doesn’t sound that post this war living in Israel is going to be safer than before

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/yemens-houthis-say-they-will-target-ships-red-sea-en-route-israel-2023-12-09/

Agree that this is the situation in Gaza.
So why, one wonders, is Israel killing thousands of Gazans, including children, because of something they didn’t vote for or have any control over? Why has it made a million people homeless?

I’m not sure I understand what you’re getting at. Is it that Israel shouldn’t be at war with Hamas because Hamas are not democratically elected? And Israel isn’t a democracy either? What’s your point about democracy here?

@Thereissomelight you were making it sound like the Gazan's need to take it up with Hamas. As they didn't democratically elect them and their actions are leading to them being killed.

Do you think they will listen? Yesterday they were saying after war they agreed to recognise Israel and they wanted to be recognised too. Recognised as what then? If they aren't the government of Gaza?

Err no, I’m asking why Israel is killing thousands of innocent people if their target is Hamas and the Gazan people had no choice in Hamas taking power.

The Gazans need to take it up with Hamas
How would the average Gazan do this? They didn’t vote for Hamas.
And it’s Israel who is currently killing them, not Hamas.

They might not have voted for them but they're still their leaders. So they can take it up with them however you'd take something up with leaders you have elected.

You're being naive if you think Hamas aren't directly behind some of the deaths in Gaza. I don't even mean because of them using people as human shields, I mean from them killing civilians with their own guns and rockets.

Statement by the Yemeni Armed Forces Spox, Yahya Sarae:

The Yemeni Armed Forces announce targeting 2 container ships, “MSC Alanya” & “MSC PALATIUM III,” headed towards israeli ports, with anti-ship ballistic missiles.

The operation aims to defend the oppressed Palestinian people currently facing killing, destruction, and siege in the Gaza Strip.

This operation follows the refusal of their crews to respond to the warnings and messages issued by the Yemeni naval forces.

We reassure all ships heading to ports worldwide, except Israeli ports, that they will face no harm. They are advised to keep their identification systems open. The Yemeni Armed Forces will not hesitate to target any ship that violates the principles outlined in our previous statements.

We affirm our commitment to preventing all ships destined for Israeli ports from navigating in the Arabian and Red Seas until the needs of our steadfast brothers in Gaza for food and medicine are met.*

At least someone is taking action to defend the Palestinians.

Err no, I’m asking why Israel is killing thousands of innocent people if their target is Hamas and the Gazan people had no choice in Hamas taking power.

Your stance is that Israel is not a democracy. You haven’t said what you think the definition of democracy is.

Hamas were elected in 2006, but since then there have been no elections in Gaza.

I don’t understand what point you’re trying to make about democracy specifically.

"Israel is at war with Gaza"
Your first line is kinda a lie, isn't it?
Gaza is essentially occupied territory, where there is an ebb and flow of pushback against the occupying military. Being occupied, coerced and blockages Gaza is not a state, it's just a destroyed fragment. A more truthful statement is: Israel continues to ethnically cleanse Gaza and West Bank, as it has done before Hamas attack.

I don’t understand your point either so I think there’s no point in us continuing this engagement thanks.

The term “democracy” has been defined by a dictionary excerpt, above. I don’t disagree with it. Your query about Israel’s poor democratic principles have been answered above by a pp, backed up with a relevant Guardian article. I agree with the article and am not sure what else you require. I think you’re arguing just for the sake of it. If not, I apologise, but I have nothing further to add that has not been said here already.

@daytriptovulcan
Agree

By any normal definition of the word, Israel is a democracy. So I’m interested to know what you think means it’s not. One opinion piece in the Guardian hasn’t changed my understanding of democracy as a system of government. I’m well aware of the problems within Israel, the failings of Netanyahu’s government and indeed the PR electoral system which gives more extreme parties more opportunities to form governments.

@Sussurations A democracy is a system of government based on freedom and equality between people, a fair and free society.

"the belief in freedom and equality between people, or a system of government* based on this belief, in which power is either held by elected representatives or directly by the people themselves"*

Here is a database of discriminatory laws in Israel that disfavour non-Jewish Israelis:

https://www.adalah.org/en/law/index

Israel is a democracy. Yemen is appalling. If people disagree that is fine but they are wrong.

Israel is a not democracy. If people disagree that is fine but they are wrong.

So since in your view, if Israel isn’t a democracy (to be clear, I don’t agree) what would be different if it was one?

Equal rights and human rights for all citizens. Regardless of religion and ethnic background. Laws that don't discriminate against people of certain ethnic backgrounds.

Israel operates as an apartheid state

I am not sure on the debate angle if it's just 'I am right and you are wrong'?

Arab citizens have the same legal rights as Jewish citizens.

There are socioeconomic and discrimination problems. Israel isn’t unique in that. Look
at the US, for example, and its significant problems with voter disenfranchisement and disproportionate incarceration of its black citizens. It’s still very much a democracy.

https://www.vox.com/23924319/israel-palestine-apartheid-meaning-history-debate

worth reading this article if you think Israel is a democracy.

That’s a good article. Thanks.

Israel within its own borders is a democracy
and I don’t see how anyone can argue otherwise.

I don’t think you will find many, if any, posters on here defending Israel’s approach to the West Bank. I agree that this has apartheid-like characteristics, although in general I think
the use of the word ‘apartheid’ is emotive and inaccurate.

.

Yes, one of the biggest freight companies has suspended it ships sailing via the Red Sea.

I must say, quite a clever tactic. Shipping companies will lose money, shipments will be delayed, prices will rise. The businesses will pressure the government (who let's face it don't listen to ordinary people). The Houthis have raised the stakes, for governments silently standing by.
https://news.sky.com/story/shipping-giant-maersk-suspends-all-journeys-through-red-sea-following-attacks-on-vessels-13031107