Horrors of violence towards women on October the 7th suppressed

[mids2019]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67613153

It looks like the UN may have been reluctant to investigate or highlight the sickening sexual violence committed on October 7th. It also appears some of the hostages may have been abused.

Was this because the horrendous violence doesn't fit in with that purely Palestinians are victims of this ongoing conflict? Are investigations into these crimes because women are viewed as second class citizens or the revelations 'muddy the waters' where some just want to see one side as the victim.

@Weefreetiffany it's not Muslims vs Jewish people
And the social media aspect is also not accurate how you have portrayed it. A bbc article was actually written about the use of social media and how it effects views and it found that depending on the platform it varied which one was dominating the two stances. I will see if I can find it
Saying that I have seen some extremely disturbing content from both stances which does make me despair
Tiktok is probably the worst of all of them which is why I don't use it anymore

Exactly my reaction too

Looks like Hamas properganda to fool some people into thinking they are nice guys by looking after a small percentage of hostages ok worked. They didn't even do that bit very well either if you look closer at what people are saying rather than sound bits. However some people will just believe what they want to believe

Can this thread not become yet another one downplaying what happened on October 7th and discussing what a proportionate response would be, we've had those threads.

This is a thread dedicated to discussing what happened on October 7th, and why it hasn't been reported on and spoken about as much as the war that came later.

There have been eye witness accounts and journalists who viewed footage, for weeks and weeks now. It has had little attention on MSM and even less on social media, which is blanketed with reports on Gaza.

Rape is downplayed in society in general, but the things I have read have been beyond shocking. We need a space to discuss it without the constant whataboutery. I can think of no other reason to derail and deflect than you just don't care that thousands of jewish people were slaughtered, tortured and raped.

No it is a long term issue and not a much to do with current events in that sense. The UN has reacted and is reacting exactly how most people expected they would about anything Israel. The relationship between Israel and the UN has been like this for years

Look at the other countries on the graph and think about everything you know that has happened and is happening in those countries. It shows the issues of bias that Israel has been talking about for years

@Parkingt111 well my perspective is that of someone who is neither of those religions but has lived and worked in the Middle East and has North African family. So I’m exposed to a lot of media from those places and the Israel Palestine problem has been going on for a long time. There are loads of 14 year old Muslims online revealing in it, in the way that 14 year olds all over the world do with underdog causes. Only they don’t see Israel as human or as innocent because of the narrative that it’s not supposed to exist. I would’ve interested to see your study, algorithms do show more of the content people interact with, whether that is a positive or negative interaction. A kind of feedback loop we all know exists on social media. But when it’s the message of 2 billion vs 15 million, the stats are completely blown in favour of quantity over truth. (Assuming there is an element of truth on both sides of course). None of that helps the women that Hamas raped to death when they broke the ceasefire on the 7th October. And then subsequently broke the “pause”.

I am also shocked by the reports coming out of mass brutal rapes on 7th October and how little airtime it’s getting. The few articles over the weekend are from MEN who witnessed it and I thank them for speaking up. Most of those women were killed or taken hostage. We don’t know - not should - what horrors they have endured when in captivity.

Wartime rape is a tool to suppress women further and to keep the shame alive. Ukraine was the same. Rapists know women don’t come out and say “this happened to me”. So on it goes.

Yet they go home heroes to their wives, mothers and sisters. How could any woman support that? Are women enabling rape?

Everyone knows a woman who has been sexually assaulted and no-one knows a rapist. That’s on us too. I am horrified.

Thanks for starting this thread.

Agree

Plus it is very likely that Russian hackers are using social media to push a divide between communities in the west. They got caught making thousands of fake accounts during covid to do this. So it is very likely they are helping to make this situation worse now

@Weefreetiffany yes you are correct that It doesn't help them at all. I just wanted to point out that it does more harm than good when it is described as a Muslims vs Jewish people.
And unfortunately there has been an increase of people online glossing over or dismissing these actions because it doesn't suit their narrative about Hamas
I won't post the study here as I think it would fall into derailing the thread but am I OK to PM it to you?

Yet they go home heroes to their wives, mothers and sisters. How could any woman support that? Are women enabling rape?

They are. Women on MN are. Look at the crazy threads on here from women and mothers denying it all and thinking Gazans are the good guys. Palestine supported and helped plan Hamas' actions. Make no mistake.

Women absolutely enable it.

@Goodornot Gazans are the good guys? What does that mean
Are you saying that all Gazans are bad?

Also, there is absolutely zero trust in the UN in Israel.

Well that might be because the UN keeps calling them out tbh. Israel like to think it’s beyond reproach.

Thats about the worst thing ive read on here. And you saying next that you dont want to annihilate a race is frankly nonsense, as you know very well.

The ICC is independent of UN -as I said in my post

Quick to call Israel out and slow to stand up for them when they’ve been brutally attacked.
and the opposite in Gaza - quick to stand up for them, and slow to call out Hamas.
ideally, they should be quick to stand up against human rights abuses in both places, and call out wrong doing in both.

I don’t agree that Israel believes itself beyond reproach, but I accept that’s your opinion.

Ask the rape survivors of the Bosnia conflict just how effective the UN were in protecting them, and achieving justice. Of course, you can’t ask the thousands of the dead women and children, but their bodies provided evidence of the mass failures of the UN during and after.
So, I’m sure the UN will get the chance to fuss and protest and insist that individuals apologise to those victims that can still hear them. They are irrelevant atm, and as ineffectual as they were thirty years ago.

It is just that posters were saying let the UN see the evidence and past experience tells us that there is bias regarding the UN and other bodies

Sorry if it is not you saying this. I was rushing this morning to get people out the door as I wrote

The problem is so far, Israel is beyond reproach. Even the USA is trying but so far Israel isn't even paying lip service to them.
Israel won't stop until they've completely destroyed Gaza, killed many more thousands and made the rest homeless. And they'll start on the west bank soon, its probably started already.
Israel will get what it wants and the dead Palestinians will be collateral damage. The dead Israelis are the excuse.

Didn't you just know the thread would invite the minimisers?
When women are raped so hard, their pelvis breaks, should make any woman want to vomit.
So much for female solidarity.

I agree. There is no female solidarity. Just excuses, minimising, whataboutery, or completely changing the subject to something they want to talk about instead.

I think rape fullstop just isn’t taken seriously, it appears to be practically legal in the UK. Look how quickly people throw women under the bus over womens sports and spaces, women aren’t people. I read some of the things that were done to these women and it’s not just rape (which is abhorrent enough by itself) , it’s sadism and torture as well.

People don’t want to acknowledge it because in a world where you are expected to be an “ally” you want to ignore the awful things your side does incase it undermines their legitimacy. People are willfully pretzeling themselves into all sorts of contortions to try to pretend it didn’t happen because on some level they believe that Hamas are freedom fighters. If you didn’t in some way endorse them it would be easy to disavow them because they are disgusting.

Oh and Owen Jones should get in the bin, the woman hating arse he is.

Oh and Owen Jones should get in the bin, the woman hating arse he is.

I hope it leads to the end of his 'career', despicable man.

Xray, Yet here they are, showing outrage at
a poster, who dared to be honest due to her disgust at Hamas. Of course they
ignore the part where she said she said
she is a longstanding advocate of Free Palestine.
It's pointless trying to engage with them.
Outrage is only on their terms, without ever taking a step back and seeing just what
Really went on on 7 October. How monstrously Hamas targeted and hunted down, with orders to behead with knives. Gang raping women and mutilating them while doing it.
We are meant to suppress the graphic horrors but those posters are constantly plying the horrors of Israel with PLENTY of vivid description.