The JC: Sacha Baron Cohen says ‘Tiktok is creating the biggest antisemitic movement since the Nazis‘

[AllWeAreSaying]

https://www.thejc.com/news/news/tiktok-is-creating-the-biggest-antisemitic-movement-since-the-nazis-says-sacha-baron-cohen-atXpPLW21qrpRTcbh9MU2

This is something we are seeing a lot. Some protesters don't like mention of the hostages and wonsay they should be released straight away

Plus the getting defensive or aggressive if you say something negative about Hamas. Though they will swear to you they do not support Hamas.

Well elaborate on that too. Do you have an issue with posters agreeing that it's horrifying that any discussion on antisemitism on here is shot down?

Or the suggestion that a discussion on antisemitism would be more suited the the Jewish board than one on the Middle East conflict even though the Middle East conflict is a massive factor in rising antisemitism right now?

It's the same sentiment as those attacking those holding 'Hamas are terrorists' signs, or those who rip down posters of the Israeli hostages.

It's the baddies vs goodies worldview that CANNOT be challenged.

Obviously they think Jews should go live in Israel because like telling Jews that they should post on the Jewish board segregation is what they desire. I mean they don't want to listen to Jewish peoples voices after all.

However most also think Israel with its 9 million people should be dismantled. As Hamas and others have said they what to rid the land of Jews from river to the sea. At least one leader has also said the Jews were taken to the sea and their throats will be cut. Then bodies thrown into the see. So it sounds like someone wants the man dead.

I'm so sorry. I know that I can walk away at any time and you can't.

Well elaborate on that too

No need. Though she may tell you I guess.

Do you have an issue with posters agreeing that it's horrifying that any discussion on antisemitism on here is shot down?

No

Or the suggestion that a discussion on antisemitism would be more suited the the Jewish board than one on the Middle East conflict even though the Middle East conflict is a massive factor in rising antisemitism right now?

It was only a suggestion. Do what you want.

I think most people would agree that Hamas are terrorists.
Agree that it’s not baddies versus goodies- as there appear to be no goodies, neither Hamas nor the Israeli government.

I think most people would agree that Hamas are terrorists.

You would hope so. Some seem remarkably reluctant.

Agree that it’s not baddies versus goodies- as there appear to be no goodies, neither Hamas nor the Israeli government.

No. Again, some seem remarkably reluctant to admit that.

I dont think the majority of people want isreal to be dismantled, and even if they did that's not going to happen, it doesn't look like anyone is trying to rid the land of Jews from where I'm standing, totally the opposite actually . It's really looking like the Israeli government are trying to rid gaza of Palestinians though.

And my phone can't spell Israel obviously

Yes I find the phrase "whataboutism" is usually used to silence debate.

I would like to ask one of the fervent flag wavers at a 'Pro Palestine' rally how do you arrive peace and a two state solution in Israel and where the borders should be. I think the answer would be nothing in reality. The protesters care nothing about peace in reality and are a thinly veiled support of Hamas in many cases; these marches are ultimately anti Israel and a desire for some sort of maximal Palestinian state.

If we allow marches up and down this country which call for the eradication of the Israeli state weekend after weekend it is no wonder anti semitism increases because it's as if the UK in some sense actually sanctions it. We have had marches here in our small town where predominantly Muslims have shut down areas of the town centre and I think our local police have limited means to detect this in large crowds that are being anti Semitic.

It would be good to have some pro Israel displays based around getting hostages home and finding some kind of fair peace which does not include eradication of Israel but Info think there is a genuine fear of such a rally.

https://www.het.org.uk/about/holocaust-education-uk

I think this is important in terms of combating anti semtisim. We have a duty to teach about the holocaust in formal education settings and as a non Jew it certainly was one of the most informative (and disturbing) parts of my.education.

The formation of Israel was partly driven as a result of the industrialised genocide of European Jews and to fully contextualize the Gaza conflict these historical roots can't be forgotten.

I think part of the increase in anti semtism is due to some in the Muslim community diminishing the holocaust calling into question the scale and nature of this horrific global event. The diminishing of the holocaust leads to undermining reasons for the state of Israel and supports the erroneous narrative that Israel is just a byproduct of colonialism. We therefore get the anti Semitic (in my view) view that Israel exists simply as enforced territorial capture in the predominantly Muslim world.

We should not allow children to skip learning about WW2 and the holocaust simply because the consequences of the war does not for their cultures narrative. Removal of factual historical education allows conspiracy theories to fester in its absence and I am sure many on the 'peace marches' in the UK will possibly believe partly in these conspiracies.

We are holocaust denial of at least disrespect in the vandalizing of holocaust memorial signs and it shows that some really do wish to ignore this part of global history.

The ruthless slaughter on October 7th must have reawakened so many fears within the Israeli population and indeed the refrain 'never again' has never seemed as important.

We in the UK have to remember that ultimately Gaza is a foreign conflict and we as UK citizens should have shared values and respect for UK history including the epoch making WW2 and the holocaust which epitomized inhuman systematic slaughter of innocents. We should not have idiots climbing war memorials of desecrating important memorials within our country.

Let's celebrate our UK with its shared values and tolerance not import hatred from other parts of the world. As shown by the Israeli flag over parliament the UK stands with Israel and I think as a society we should abhor anti semitism in all its forms.

I note that Sachs Baron Cohen very cleverly parodied anti semitism with his Borat character. I think he has always wanted society to know about anti semitism and he has used comedy to this end.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6_nFuJAF5F0

There are some like this gentlemen that were on the right side of history. A small.antidote to the tide of racism in Nazi Europe at that time.

That woman is representative of plenty of threads I've seen on social media.

There are also plenty of people refusing to condemn rape as a weapon of war....they seem to think it's legitimate resistance.

They would be condemning it if it was happening anywhere else in the world, but as it was done to Israelis it's fine.

There is a prayer rally in London today, Sunday 19th

www.cufi.org.uk/events/never-again-is-now/ 4-5.30, this is organised by Christian Action against antisemitism

And another march next week, Sunday 26th organised by the campaign against antisemitism

@Towerofsong

excellent

Well, there are posts on MN calling the 7th October attacks a false flag event, so I'm not surprised at that.

It is unreasonable to expect every Jew to feel accountable for the terrible actions of the Israeli government. I agree with that, and it shouldn't lead to antisemitism.

However being critical of Israel is not antisemitism.

It depends what you mean by being critical of Israel

If you mean particular actions or policies of the Israeli government, then no, thats legitimate

If you are critical of Israel's existence, or dispute it's right to exist, that's antiSemitic.

To stay on the right side of the divide, you need to be specifically saying you are critical of a government policy, the government, a particular member of the government.

Not "Israel this, Israel that"

With all due respect, as someone who is neither Jewish nor Palestinian, I think you need to educate yourself. Lecturing "us here in the UK" about "our shared values" (the government haven't been able to define 'shared values' so not sure what you are proposing?) about the "inhumane slaughter of innocent people" as if hatred is only an "imported" thing from those backward forrins. The Jewish posters will be able to tell you there's been plenty of hate from "our people". And according to international law, parts of Israel are enforced territorial capture. Please read up on the illegal settlements. However, this thread is about antisemitism so back to that.

I would like to go back to what I said about SBC. I'll not go into my opinion of him, but regarding his satire. He himself said that people internalise what you see. If any of the Jewish posters on here heard children (or adults) singing this song, would you not think it was antisemitic? From a safeguarding POV, this is considered a hate crime in school. If he'd kept his satire for the Jewish community, you can all laugh together if you think it's funny. But when someone takes this satire (which is usually full of stereotypes) into the public, where people might already hold these views, then this satire legitimizes their actions. "Oh but SBC sang this and he's Jewish, so it can't be antisemitic!" will be the cry of every person singing it. We'll not go into him satirizing Black, Muslim and Central Asians.

My ds has a physical disability, and there is a comedian with the same disability who performs satirical pieces regarding it. People with the disability can relate and find it funny. Fair enough. But when people without the disability, who have heard them start using the same terms/stereotypes for "bantz" it starts to legitimize name calling and become a not so micro aggression. If a picture of a Jewish man was drawn with horns on a synagogue or school, or anywhere, would this not be considered an act of jew hate or antisemitism? And I'll remind people that Jewish posters have called other Jewish people "antisemites" @Trulywonderful

Sorry truly ignore that tag, I was saying that Jewish posters on here are silencing the voice of other Jewish people because they don't agree with them (and calling them antisemites and nuts) then claiming that Jewish people aren't allowed a voice.

@mids2019
You said we in the uk have to remember that ultimately Gaza is a foreign conflict

In the next paragraph you go on to say
As shown by the Israeli government the UK stands with Israel

so ultimately despite the Israeli Gaza conflict both being foreign to the UK it's ok to take a stance as long as its pro Israeli

And those who protest or speak up against the massacre taking place in Gaza should be reminded it's nothing to do with us.

Can you see why this rhetoric is not only hypocritical but also problematic in a democracy like the UK?

In regards to the teaching of holocaust in schools I have said it myself that this is something that is lacking in the national curriculum. The best deterrent for racism and anti semitism is education and maybe schools start to realise that many are lacking in this and there needs to be steps taken to address this

This.

They post content from tic tok, insta and X and lots being used to promote hatred. The rise in anti semitism and also the idea that Bin Laden and his merry band and the merry band of Hamas are not the bad guys. I imagine they might feel differently if caught up in a terrorist attack though.

If any of the Jewish posters on here heard children (or adults) singing this song, would you not think it was antisemitic?

In I heard any non Jewish children or adults singing this song I’d think they were antisemitic not the song. The song is so patently ridiculous it couldn’t be anything but satire so I’d also think they were a bit stupid.