Why don't Hamas/Palestine surrender (and release hostages) in a losing conflict?

[sweetroastedpeanut]

Please preach me.

I greatly sympathize with the Palestinians and the innocent people attacked by Hamas. The sadness is imminent. Numerous lives lost and homes destroyed. The retaliation is getting out of proportion and bombing should stop right now.

However, I cannot make sense of why there's no one asking Hamas / Palestine to surrender to facilitate an immediate cease fire.

Why doesn't Hamas got chased away from Palestine for peace, who initiate the conflict themselves on 7 Oct (And ironically the heads of Hamas are not in Palestine taking the blow).

And why doesn't Palestine's allies (e.g. Lebanon, Iran) provides humanitarian aids and give a big welcome and provide shelter for Palestinians but fanning the flames instead?

I know many will talk about the long history of conflict and how Palestine has been suffering but I think that's not really helping in achieving an immediate cease fire here. If ceasefire is the priority, and the lives of civilians matter, then Hamas should surrender now. And Palestinians should turn the trouble makers in.

I cannot help but thinking Hamas leaders are cowards who cannot take responsibility for the mess they have created, while ducking under the bodies of civilians who die for Hamas foolishness.

How does the average Palestinian surrender ? You think if they fly a white flag over the hospital it will help?

I think you are mixing people up. Civilians are not Hamas (unless you think they are).

Hamas should lay down their weapons. And the leaders of Hamas shall release hostages and held responsible - that's a gesture of surrender.

But why would Hamas do that ?

And why doesn't Palestine's allies (e.g. Lebanon, Iran) provides humanitarian aids and give a big welcome and provide shelter for Palestinians but fanning the flames instead?

How are Palestinians getting to Lebanon or Iraq in this scenario you've created?

Why doesn't Hamas got chased away from Palestine for peace, who initiate the conflict themselves on 7 Oct (And ironically the heads of Hamas are not in Palestine taking the blow).

What does peace look like you? Palestinians weren't living in peace prior to 7 October, they were under military occupation by Israel being controlled, arrested and killed on Israels whim, what makes you think there would be peace after this?

To achieve an immediate cease fire, as mentioned. Hamas has lost the conflict clearly - it is now dragging on by pulling civilians into the conflict for refusing to surrender.

If anyone are asking for cease fire/peace (not revenge), it is the most effective solution.

Err to stop further civilian Palestinian casualties?

But I guess that presupposes that Hamas even care about avoiding further civilian casualties.

It's clear Hamas don't care about civilians any more than the Israelis

It is also clear to me that the more Palestinians that are killed the stronger Hamas will become and that to Hamas probably sounds like a great long term plan

And why doesn't Palestine's allies (e.g. Lebanon, Iran) provides humanitarian aids and give a big welcome and provide shelter for Palestinians but fanning the flames instead?

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Firstly Jordan tried this but it then led to a civil war when the PLO then tried to overthrow the Jordanian. A large number of the PLO then fled to Lebanon where they again tried to overthrow the government and started another civil war. So many Arab countries are not keen to repeat this mistake.

Secondly shifting Palestinians to another country just shifts the problem whereas the only long lasting answer is a true two state solution.

Thirdly Iran is fanning the flames for its own agenda and doesn't want the conflict to stop.

“If ceasefire is the priority, and the lives of civilians matter…”

Your answer is in your question. Ceasefire and the lives of the Palestinian civilians don’t matter to Netanyahu.

Eh? One side can’t bring about a ceasefire by themselves! Israel doesn’t want a ceasefire. Please don’t believe that returning all the hostages (and some of them may have been killed in the bombing), would result in Israel withdrawing and opening negotiations - that’s fantasy land!

Lets not kid ourselves that the lives of the civilians matter to Hamas either - they don't care how many of their own people die, There are wrongs on both sides of this and a load of kids stuck in the middle

I think Netanyahu has said he'll need to be re-occupying Gaza after this, and shrinking the territory - so there isn't great incentives for surrender.

I agree a ceasefire would prevent further Palestinian civilian casualties but it would come at the cost of subsequent Israeli civilian casualties as Hamas launch subsequent terrorist attacks against Israel as they have promised to do.

So it comes down to a choice between supporting a ceasefire meaning no more Palestinian civilian casualties but more Israeli civilian casualties or not supporting a ceasefire which means no more Israeli civilian casualties but more Palestinian civilian casualties.

Whereas a surrender by Hamas (if it was even possible) and release of hostages would mean no more civilian casualties on both sides. Trouble is Hamas actually want more Palestinian casualties because it just bolsters their support.

@MissyB1

"Please don’t believe that returning all the hostages (and some of them may have been killed in the bombing), would result in Israel withdrawing and opening negotiations - that’s fantasy land!"

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Gaza is a vipers nest that no country including Israel wants to occupy- just witness the lack of countries offering to put peace keeping forces there!

There’s a very damning secret video of Netanyahu on Twitter taking about Palestine, he has no plans of honouring a ceasefire ever. There are a lot of people making billions out of this war and they have no desire for it to end quickly. Hence why there’s been very little reporting on the BBC about the US and U.K. forces positioning themselves in and around that area.

You seem to be missing the fact that Hamas knew Israel would
respond when they attacked. Hamas wanted to start a war and they succeeded.

Ah, Twitter. Always a reliable news source.

How, pray tell us, are these billions being made?

@Ponderingwindow It's very hard to understand the mindset of Hamas - it's extreme. I think they may believe that even getting the world to finally see Palestinians before their culture is extinguished is a win. Of course, ordinary people - the civilians and the hostages - would prefer life, even the hardest of lives. But Hamas is an ideology and if you are not part of it it's impossible to grasp it's extreme position.

You mean like this

You've never heard of the Arms Trade?

Do you really think that Israel has used billions worth of weapons in Gaza, or that arms makers are somehow behind the war?

This is a really good summary on the consequence of a ceasefire (or no ceasefire).

Trouble is Hamas actually want more Palestinian casualties because it just bolsters their support.

Yes and this is exactly why 7/10 happened. It wasn't, as I've seen some posters suggest on other threads, a bunch of Hamas members taking their chance when it arose - it was a finely orchestrated and executed plan. A trap was set for Netanyahu and the warmongering and stupid prick walked straight into it, exactly as Hamas expected he would, although possibly not to the extent it has played out. But nevertheless Hamas probably can't believe their luck at the outcome so far, sadly.

@MissConductUS Your ignorance is showing. The clip in question is from a US news channel but uploaded to Twitter, it’s that good enough for you?!

Hamas have offered to release all Israeli hostages in return for Palestinian hostages held in prisons indefinitely. Israel refused.

Also, they are not losing the conflict, the IDF are losing dozens of tanks every day. The IDF have no ground game, nor do they have any public sympathy outside a few pockets in the US and UK.

@1dayatatime
And what about the palestinian children being held hostage in Israeli prisons without charge or trial? Where do they fit in this equation