After this there will be silence

[notsoready4school]

Are we really just going to just let this happen. I was upset about the protest ban in France but at least he has finally spoken up. When is the UK going to finally say something and stop letting this happen in our name.

This is the moment we have been warning the whole world the Gaza Deputy Health Minister Dr. Youssef Abu Alreesh, currently inside al-Shifa Hospital as it is takes heavy fire from Israeli forces.
Here are his translated comments:

• This is the moment we have been warning the whole world of, all generators are off, all power sources are out.
• We have 39 newborns in the incubators, those babies are fighting against death.
• No one is able to move around the compound, snipers are stationed all over the place in addition to the drones that target and kill any moving person.
• A few minutes ago one of the engineering team was hit by a sniper, he was hit in the neck and was paralysed and he’s now about to die.
• Part of the hospital was shelled and part of the building caught fire, we fear it will engulf the whole compound.
• A few families tried to leave but they were targeted; now they are lying dead outside the hospital. We cannot get to them.
• We are totally stranded, we are cut off from the outside world, and above all, we are left without any medical resources. We cannot even bury the dead.
• Ferocious gunfire can be heard within the vicinity of the hospital, the intensive care unit received a mortar shell a few minutes ago.
• Blood is everywhere, on the floor, we cannot even clean it.
• In the past, the Israeli killing machine was killing and this was conveyed on TV screens. Now they are perpetrating the same killing but no one is listening, no one is watching, the whole world is standing by.
• We are speaking with whatever is left of my phone battery, after that, we will be silent.

They have requested and offered a ceasefire

Exactly this. Hamas do not care about their people, not one iota. There’s a lot of propaganda and misinformation on this thread so don’t expect any reasoned response.

Evacuate hundreds of critically injured and disfigured people, many of whom are in intensive care, as well as babies in incubators to where exactly? To one of the other hospitals getting bombed, or…? I would love to know.

“All staff in the hospital have always known that hamas have their headquarters below the hospital, they also know that the hostages including 30 babies are being held below the hospital.”

You’re just making things up as you go along. Multiple hospital staff have refuted the claim that Hamas are there. If they are there, then they’re unaware.

As for the bit about babies being held under the hospital, that is pure fiction. I love that you claim to know where the hostages are.

When was the last pause? Do you know that, too?

You seem to think that Hamas have forced Israel to do despicable things, as if Hamas are somehow now using telekinesis to force the IDF to blow up, maim and torture Palestinian children and babies as they die slowly under rubble. As if that isn’t a choice made by their far-right, terrorist government, that’s part of all the other monstrous decisions that they make.

The fact that you have been reading the news for the past month and think that the Israeli govt give a shit about hostages says a lot. Thousands protesting in Israel disagree with you.
@eardefender

Hamas has tunnels under hospitals. Hamas has a weapons factory within hospitals. Hamas' gunmen are currently hiding in the Shifra Hospital and shooting at the Israeli soldiers from the hospital windows.
There are multiple irrefutable video and photo evidence of this.

Do you really think the Israeli's should stand by and say "Its a hospital let's let them shoot anti-tanks, we'll just ignore!?"

All you people here on MN, saying that Israel is bombing innocent civilians. Don't you see it? - You are asking Gaza's enemy (Israel) to be more merciful on its citizens then the Gazan leaders (Hamas). How twisted!?

I mean, Britain bombed Dresden to get rid of the Nazis, and there were no protests in Trafalgar square!!??

Somehow Israel is held up to some really unfair standards.

"You are asking Gaza's enemy (Israel) to be more merciful on its citizens then the Gazan leaders (Hamas). How twisted!?"

Actually I don't think it's twisted at all. Absolutely a democracy with international superpower backing ought to behave better than a brutal terrorist dictatorship. In fact I'd say it's twisted to suggest that they shouldn't behave better.

As for Dresden, I'll dig my great grandad up and ask him shall I?

That's not only incorrect but an incredibly bold statement to make. Please provide which credible source you have for a)all doctors know about this alleged Hamas base and b) that there are 30 hostage babies being held there along side other hostages

Queucumber · Yesterday 21:36

No, there’s hezbollah, funded by Iran.

That's Lebanon, an entirely different country.

Fatah are in the West Bank and are extremely unpopular with the Palestinians, on account of their corruption and willingness to carry out security operations for the Israelis. They do that because they're terrified of being the next Gaza.

You’re right, it’s Fatah in the West Bank, Hamas in Gaza and Hezbollah in Lebanon.

@notsoready4school show me the evidence Hamas said it would down tools and ceasefire?

My point about the tunnels is that they have the capacity to smuggle through whatever they like.... they chose not to smuggle through the food and goods their civilians need and them blame Israel. What is the blame not at Hamas' door? If you rely on another state to feed and look after you would you then massacre their children?

They could stop firing rockets and stop using the hospital as a post to shoot at soldiers.... you know if they really cared about the babies. They don't though which is why they need to go.

The situation with Dresden etc was very different as we weren't watching it in real time. I believe people would have been horrified if they had cameras everywhere and people sending back a regular torrent of info but they didn't. It's easier to disassociate yourself then as it's been from most wars and conflicts except maybe Ukraine.

The hospital situation I imagine (if it's there and it sounds like I want it to be there but I have to be honest if it's Not it will be a tipping point for me) that most doctors are somewhat too preoccupied to know what's going on underneath it. Under such a chaotic reality it would be easy not to know or not want to know. They are there to preserve life.

I do think some members of the medical profession know where the hostages are though even due to some having injuries/ some needing medical assistance. Also the released hostage said she saw doctors.

All staff in the hospital have always known that hamas have their headquarters below the hospital
please do the faintest bit of research before spewing things you no nothing about ,
the hospital was built in three stages , first by the British , then Egyptians then Israelis in the 80s,
lots of Foreign Doctors like Mads Gilbert Worked there for years and know the place very well and said they’ve never seen anything suspicious , Sara Roy a professor at Harvard who lived in Gaza and Isreal wrote many thesis and Books about Gaza says it’s highly improbable,
yet the Israeli Army who didn’t see two Hamas Paragliding into Israel are all of sudden certain Hamas are hiding inside the hospital ?

And if they indeed had a tip off that members are within the vicinity , the tunnels are 500km long , and are probably changing locations very often . do you think after heavy fighting they’d still be in there ?

Israel has, at least since 2007, controlled the movement of goods to Gaza, in order " to make sure that no weapons are smuggled in. It is the same in the West Bank with the added "bonus" of destroying the Palestinian watermelons' production as Israel wants to remain their biggest exporter.
The Palestinians also have to ask the Israelis' permission before digging a well and I could go on.

You can’t seriously believe that Palestinians, who have been an agricultural people for millennia, all of a sudden forgot how to feed themselves and cultivate the land?

https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/palestinians/2018-07-09/ty-article/.premium/farm-warfare-how-israel-uses-chemicals-to-kill-crops-in-gaza/0000017f-e01e-d804-ad7f-f1fef7830000

https://gisha.org/en/hundreds-of-dunams-of-crops-in-gaza-destroyed-by-aerial-herbicide-spraying-conducted-by-israel/

There is unending evidence about all the ways that Israel crushes the food supply in Gaza. Watch the documentary ‘Born in Gaza’ on Netflix.

How easy do you think it is to snuggle when the entire area is under unbelievably intense military surveillance and bombardment?

Netanyahu rejecting Hamas ceasefire deal:

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/09/netanyahu-rejected-ceasefire-for-hostages-deal-in-gaza-sources-say

Just because hostages are being brought to hospitals, that does not mean that doctors are somehow privy to their whereabouts. What a hop, skip and a jump to assume that.

“They could stop firing rockets and stop using the hospital as a post to shoot at soldiers.... you know if they really cared about the babies. They don't though which is why they need to go.”

Who is saying that they like Hamas and that they should stay?! The fact remains that the actions of the IDF are despicable!

The whole point of drawing up the international laws that we have was “Never Again” - which meant never again for everyone!

The willingness of people to justify atrocities is appalling.

If your great grandad was a Nazi-supporter living in Dresden, that explains a lot.

The point is that in war innocent people die. Its a very sad reality.
The vital moral difference is, who is the army targeting? A decent army will target the enemy, an evil army will target civilians. Just today, Israel is offering assistance to the Shifra hospital today to help it transport the babies in incubators. If the Israeli army was intent on genocide and targeting civilians this would not be happening.

All this death is awful.
It's why I will never understand why Hamas thought it was a valid idea to send so many of the people who it governs to certain death.
It's also why I do not understand why straight after Hamas started this war, Palestinian supporters equated the terror attack on October 7th with Palestinian freedom and why so many of them on peace marches still equate a war in which so many Palestinians are dying with Palestinian freedom
Either the concern is that Palestinians are dying in too high numbers in a war started by Hamas and they would like Israel (alone) to put down arms, or that war is a valid step for Hamas to take in enabling Palestinian freedom.
But it cannot be both things, surely? I just don't understand the multitude of "freedom for Palestine" banners and badges in the middle of a war started by Palestinian representatives on a peace march , ,the premise of which is that too many Palestinians are dying?
And still no insistence on Hamas setting realistic terms for a ceasefire, considering their aim of destroying Israel and saying that Palestinian deaths are an "expectation" in their aim...in a war that they started and which they are losing.
It's like people need to regard Hamas and Gazans as both the winners and losers of this conflict, thus they espouse totally opposite narratives in order to justify Israel being the Devil with the total manipulation of Hamas being ignored...and why, unless these people actually do support the actions and aims of Hamas, even as Hamas has sent so many Gazans to certain death.
If peace is really wanted by the protestors, it's full time now that they recognise that the onus has to be on the faction which started this war which it is losing to stop acting as if they are holding the handle, when, in fact, it is holding the blade.
Hamas and Palestinian supporters cannot not be "poor us" without being humble enough to demand Hamas put down arms first and unconditionally....considering that the death toll to Gazans is allegedly the main concern in a war that Hamas started.
One cannot be making demands of the side that didn't break the ceasefire , built a defence system to protect its people in case of missiles being sent to its nation , whilst the other side seemingly ate the interminable amount of money that it has stolen from its people leaving them naked and the literal buffers.
In Jamaican parlance , I see a whole heap of " panya machete" talk from both Hamas and the majority of vocal Palestinian supporters.
Their mouths cut two sides. And they do the dying Gazans absolutely no favours.
It is Hamas that needs to surrender unconditionally.
Then we can all sit back, pro Israel, pro Hamas, really Pro Palestinian, combination of pro Hamas and Pro Palestinian, neutral or doesn't pretend to give a toss and see what move Israel makes.
Or does the need to see Israel as "murderers of babies" come above the possibility of peace that would mean rendering Hamas impotent ( for now) without more Gazans dying as collateral damage in this war?
I cannot think of another war where it has been seen that the side defending itself has to stop doing so because the side that started the war is losing, yet doesn't surrender.
That doesn't make me a Palestinian hater.
It just makes me wonder why so many vocal Palestinian supporters hate Gazans so much to the point of not demanding that Hamas get a bit of " act right" about them and surrender unconditionally. Hamas cannot have the luxury of starting shit, not being able to finish shit, but want to control the terms of a peace where it is Israel as the defending entity that makes the concessions?
Hamas and vocal Palestinian supporters have got the most front that I've seen in a long time.
Shameless shit ( in my Clay Davis voice).

Just today, Israel is offering assistance to the Shifra hospital today to help it transport the babies in incubators. If the Israeli army was intent on genocide and targeting civilians this would not be happening.

Is this serious? A decent army wouldn't cut off power, destroy solar panels and generators for hospitals. A decent army wouldn't deny hospitals fuel for generators. A decent army would deny aid entry so that people are having to ha e amputations on the floor with no anaesthesia. A decent army wouldn't have snipers shooting nicu nurses as they do their job. A decent army wouldn't target ambulances and medical centres. Delicate babies shouldn't need to be moved, they should be safe in their incubators with their parents at their side and nurses able to freely move around and tend to them. They shouldn't be wrapped in blankets on a hospital floor with terrified staff afraid to move on case they get shot. If Israel do move them it will be for nothing but optics because babies dying in incubators makes them look as bad as they are.

@untitledmum also wrote:

”The point is that in war innocent people die. Its a very sad reality.”

This is something that we’ve seen written over and over again on this thread.

The fact that Israel is a signatory to the Geneva Convention but is currently using it as IDF toilet paper means absolutely nothing to these people.

Their thinking is informed by extremist ideology. It is full of hatred.

They are trying to get you to look the other way so that they can carry out genocide in peace.

And I'll repeat, Israel is not targeting civilians. They are targeting the terrorists who are intentionally hiding amongst their own civilians.

gosh don’t you get tired of repeating these lies?

And are you justifying all these killings because you believe all these children will grow up to hate and kill non Muslims?

Something is terribly wrong with you if you see nothing wrong with all these deaths , and please don’t say but hamas , it’s not the issue here , it’s you, criminalising and dehumanising civilians to justify the actions of the Israeli government .

Do you even realise that Christians have been living there for for centuries along with Muslims?

do you realise the number of Non Muslims that have lived and worked there for many years with absolutely nothing to say but good things about the Gazans?

I stand by the fact if it's not easy to 'snuggle' or smuggle things in we know for a fact weapons and luxury items have gone in.... Hamas are picking priorities.

The article you quoted from the guardian says that Bibi said no... a source said.... because it was for 'some' hostages. I Don't think he has ever made a secret of the fact that he wants them all out. It makes things very difficult when you start picking and choosing....the elderly? Babies? Children under 5?

The hostages weren't brought to hospitals. Lifshitz said 'that each group had their own doctor and paramedic who administered medication' Not a 'hop, skip and jump' as that was what happened. She was there (have provided the article in case you accuse me of propaganda). The doctors were complicit. In the tunnels with the captives.

!? No one is saying that Hamas are great leaders

And it doesn’t matter if they did or didn’t smuggle stuff in before. Do you believe that is still happening? I have seen no evidence of that or anyone even proposing it’s true. Is Israel media suggesting they are still smuggling in goods for themselves? In which case the siege would be nothing else but collective punishment. If you agree that then you know that the people even if they could have been fatter and chubbier babies before with mounts of medical supplies, now after a month, they have run out and Israel is letting them die. It is irrelevant what Hamas could or couldn’t have done before. The logic makes no sense unless you are trying to change the narrative into suggesting IDF is coming into free starving hungry people from Hamas. It is now irrelevant what Hamas did or didn’t do for its people. It doesn’t have any relevance to these discussions.

The only entity mediating hostages is Qatar. There is no way to know the real truth of what was offered but Al Jazeera shared the news that Hamas agreed to a ceasefire in exchange for hostages. And of course they would. Why wouldn’t they? The damage is done their objectives have been achieved, Israel’s international reputation is in tatters. The normalisation is off the table. What makes you think they wouldn’t agree to a ceasefire for hostages? They have nothing to lose.

Please write your tipping point down for yourself and even though I think it is a really low bar for a tipping point, if that is enough for you to reframe your assessment than please look into it extensively as there will be a lot of lies circulating afterwards to justify it. We know this.

To me and the rest of the international community, even if Hamas was under a hospital these means of getting at them are unacceptable and inhumane and the ends do not justify the means.

Exactly this. Jews, Christians and Muslims were living together in harmony in Palestine. Palestinians have the track record for maintaining harmony.

Well said @HoldOnMiGenna

dumpkin · Yesterday 17:17
**
@OuiOuiKitty do you have any suggestions on how to stop it?”

The US could stop the onslaught on Gaza right now by suspending funding until it ceased.

@notsoready4school 'I have seen no evidence of that' do you live there?
Hamas are still firing rockets into Israel and fighting hand to hand (in a hospital)
Imagine if they just laid down arms or stopped firing rockets (that have to come from somewhere)

I am talking about what Hamas could do now.....like handing back the hostages. All of them. Which they haven't.