My question to you

[whatswrongwiththeworldddd]

If Hamas was hiding in Tel Aviv, would it be acceptable to indiscriminately bomb Tel Aviv killing 4000 children, 10000 civilians, 24 journalists and 70 UN colleagues?

If a school shooter was hiding out In a classroom, when would it ever be morally accepted to bomb the entire school?

Self-fulfilling prophecy, isn't it.
It's in Israel's best interests to be in conflict. They have continually provoked it and literally enabled the set up of a terrorist state as they know they will always have the superior firepower and the support of the US. The cycle will repeat as this horror creates new terrorists. Sickening.

I can relate to your post so much. I wasn’t pro Palestine until I discovered how many people were sympathising with those who have now killed 10k plus innocent civilians. Thank goodness it’s not that majority, but I cannot fathom how anyone can sympathise with mass genocide. If they can do that then they are no better than the ones that didn’t flinch at the news of the killings of the innocent civilians on the 7th of October.

They have been able to destroy a lot of Hamas offices, warehouses, weapon factories etc. It's not just about killing Hamas, it's about preventing them from being able to repeat their massacre of last month. Once that is done, they'll presumably focus more on the actual people who belong to Hamas.

This is not only pure fiction, but frankly laughable.

Weapon factories going might slow them down, but Hamas receive arms from sources external to Gaza. Everything else that you’ve listed is easily replaceable.

The fact that you think that the loss of 10,000 innocents in exchange for an office/warehouse being destroyed, shows me that you’re not a poster worth engaging with.

And on the point of mass ethnic cleansing, the UN warned of mass ethnic cleansing after a week of what the IDF is doing, the same IDF who are instructed by the Minister of National Security, Ben-Gvir, who has been convicted of 8 charges relating to terrorism and inciting racial hatred.

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/10/un-expert-warns-new-instance-mass-ethnic-cleansing-palestinians-calls#:~:text=GENEVA%20(14%20October%202023)%20%E2%80%93,Hamas%20and%20Israeli%20occupation%20forces.

How will they continue to receive arms once their infrastructure including tunnels are all gone? You seem to know something no one else does

Not even going to bother replying to your insinuation that I'm ok with the loss of life, by the way. It's pathetic. You guys really don't bother reading before posting, do you? Just make up your own little narratives

IDF might kill some key hamas leaders because they are active in the operation. but the actual force?

can you tell the small children who are subjected to mass killings to be peace lovers?? why should they be???

Israel made enimity with everyone around now. they may not have ability to win them, They keep causing headaches.

"You guys"? I thought you were all about specificity, my friend.

@Humdingerydoo
”I am really struggling to understand why you think 30000 Hamas members (which doesn't include other terrorists that belong to other groups or the civilians that also entered Israel and took hostages and joined in the slaughter) couldn't possibly be using civilian buildings to such a large extent?”
I look to 3rd parties to verify because both IDF and Hamas are at war and so are not going to publish accurate information. I believe that many of the claims of IDF are not substantiated because both the Red Cross and the UN (their staff in Gaza monitoring all this) have verified that Hamas are not using specific buildings- eg like Al Shifa hospital as a Hamas command centre or the church of St Porphyrius that was pancaked onto sheltering civilians. There has also been zero verified footage from anyone of any Hamas rockets being launched from or by any hospitals or schools.

“how did you feel on the 7th October when Israel had just been attacked and Palestinians all over Gaza and the West Bank were celebrating?” Felt like shit of course. But dehumanising on SM by keyboard warriors is not a reason to deliberately bomb them and their children into tiny pieces of bloody flesh with nonstop bombardment of a tiny area that they have been besieged and trapped in. International law on protecting the lives of civilians applies to your worst enemy, to even those civilians that hate you for being a Jew and would celebrate your death. It’s not meant to only be applied to your friends and allies. These laws were written in the aftermath of WWII when the horrors of Dresden, Rape of Berlin, Nagasaki and Hiroshima fully impressed on us that even the children of Nazis or the children of Kamakazi Japanese should be protected from mass slaughter in time of war. The dictators (and Hamas is a terrorist dictatorship that rule by a coup- the “election” win was obtained with a gun pointed at the heads of all the voters”) may head up an evil regime, but that is not cause to retaliate or to win a war against them by killing innocent civilians, most especially children. We realised as a United Nations the error in the atrocties and swore never again. Yet, we are letting it happen. Being a victim of terrorists is not just cause to kill thousands of children who lived in the same city as the terrorists.

You know what, I actually knew someone would be childish enough to say this. I just couldn't be bothered going through and naming each individual as I'm on my phone and there are far too many posters.

"You guys" obviously refers to all the posters on here that I've interacted with, who don't bother reading what's been said before posting.

Have you not seen the video of a soldier in a school in Gaza, right next door to a weapons factory? Or the one of the scout hut full of rocket launchers? I can't remember which thread I posted them on.

This does not excuse genocide by Israel and should not be taken out of context namely Israel's suppression of the people in Gaza for decades.

No, we would (or should) not bomb Germany or Japan in such a way today. The international laws prohibiting such mass bombing and collective punishments were written as a direct result of these atrocities we committed during WWII to try and prevent them from happening again in future wars.

@DownNative
No, those tunnels were built so weapons capabilities could be smuggled in to Gaza to be put together by Hamas.
Let's not disingenuously suggest any other purpose for Hamas' extensive tunnel network, hey?

The tunnels are in fact used to smuggle everything under the sun into Gaza, not just weapons from outside foreign agents. In fact, the Hamas tax on smuggled goods generates over $200m in annual income direct to Hamas. How do you think their leaders got so rich? Rich enough to bribe young men into fighting for them? Hamas needed to find other income streams as all the aid money goes through Israel and is carefully audited and monitored by Israel and UNWRA to ensure it does not get spent on Hamas terrorist weapons, equipment or propaganda.

Listen to the survivor accounts from Oct 7th, in many cases the terrorists that took hostages tell their hostages that they were offered payouts from Hamas to do the attack and assured their family would get the money if they died.

Sorry! Meant to clear your quote so the thread would be neater.

The blockade kept the population of Gaza on starvation rations and in poverty due to Israeli fear of Hamas. It’s ok to be afraid, but this fear led to violation of humanitarian law by not allowing in enough water, electricity, food, medicine or the supplies for Gaza to be self sufficient in these areas. This blockade extended to exports, and the Israeli blockade ensured their economy would be crippled and them kept in poverty and food insecurity.

All due to fear of Hamas.

Not only human rights groups, but multiple experts on war crimes have said Israel has and is continuing to commit war crimes in addition to saying that Hamas Oct 7 attack was also a war crime.

I have seen both of the videos. They have numerous clues of staging having happened. I did my 30 months in the IDF as an Israeli and have participated in preparing similar for the press. If you don’t believe me, look up Breaking the Silence of which I am a member. It is of former IDF members on the things we were ordered to do that were not moral.

I would want a UN or Red Cross investigator to be verifying these discoveries, but IDF is only letting in a few Press and they are censoring all footage taken by the press. So it is unlikely we’d get footage good enough to make a definite conclusion one way or the other while it is likely the footage we do get to see will be that which supports wants IDF wants us to conclude.

@RebekaTuwin thank you
I just saw this and it has made me even more worried than I was before
To see Blinken openly criticise Israel like this is a huge cause for concern that the situation on the ground is actually alot worse than we know
I really can't see how much clearer it can be than this

Only mentioned it because you've been "childish enough" to have said exactly the same to others (myself included). Just thought it was worth bringing to your attention.
You're welcome. :)

What are the clues of staging? So I know what to look out for. Genuine question, not trying to be funny.

Let's be clear though, the IDF only letting a few members of the press in and censoring footage isn't (necessarily) because they're trying to cover something up. It's standard protocol for any army to want to do this when there is an active mission in progress. I realise you will presumably already be aware of this, I'm just mentioning this for the benefit of others who may come across this post.

We won't know what's what until after the war is over. We won't know what were legitimate targets and what weren't. I'm just getting fed up with so many people assuming absolutely everything Israel is doing is with evil intent. It's exhausting.

And a little bit tongue in cheek but also sort of not - the stories you guys are posting on Breaking the Silence, are they all verified? You mention you want all the IDF videos to be verified which is why I'm asking. It's a genuine question. I've heard of Breaking the Silence before but I've never read / watched anything on there so I really don't know.

Another of Israel's lies coming to light.

Someone needs to get through to Nethanyu to allow a ceasefire. Biden may be able to do so. I hope so. If Israel ends up convicted of genocide by the ICC, that will damage Israel irreparably on the world stage, and as a young country would make Israel vulnerable. Ignoring the 120 UN nations that voted for a ceasefire was an international relations mistake. Israel is risking the UN turning its back on us. The US’ initial unconditional support contributed to this arrogance and its good the US is modifying its position to try and de-escalate things as it is necessary to prevent this war destabilising the entire Middle East.

@RebekaTuwin the cracks in the relationship between Biden and Netanyahu are becoming more apparent. I think Biden is starting to realise the influence he once had on Israel and Netanyahu has been eroded or it wasn't there in the first place.
I can't see anyone getting through to Netanyahu unfortunately although I pray i am proved wrong

@Humdingerydoo
Can I PM you with my observations on the videos that led me to suspect tampering? I typed a long post and think it may derail the thread.