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Conflict in the Middle East

My question to you

345 replies

whatswrongwiththeworldddd · 08/11/2023 21:40

If Hamas was hiding in Tel Aviv, would it be acceptable to indiscriminately bomb Tel Aviv killing 4000 children, 10000 civilians, 24 journalists and 70 UN colleagues?

If a school shooter was hiding out In a classroom, when would it ever be morally accepted to bomb the entire school?

OP posts:
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18
Humdingerydoo · 10/11/2023 16:11

RebekaTuwin · 10/11/2023 15:42

@Humdingerydoo
Can I PM you with my observations on the videos that led me to suspect tampering? I typed a long post and think it may derail the thread.

Sure, please do! I'm genuinely interested :)

25milesfromhome · 10/11/2023 16:13

@RebekaTuwin me as well please if that would be alright? I’d really like to know more.

Parkingt111 · 10/11/2023 16:40

@RebekaTuwin I don't think it would, your posts are always insightful so please do post

Ecdysiast · 10/11/2023 17:35

@RebekaTuwin You're one of the most measured and diplomatic voices here so I doubt your post would upset anyone. I'd be interested in reading it too, so please do post or PM me. Thanks!

ThinkWise · 10/11/2023 18:03

@Humdingerydoo I think you check the insights from @RebekaTuwin and if you are convinced to somewhat sensible, please let us know the same. I do think discussion on those pointers sideline the thread.

Humdingerydoo · 10/11/2023 18:36

ThinkWise · 10/11/2023 18:03

@Humdingerydoo I think you check the insights from @RebekaTuwin and if you are convinced to somewhat sensible, please let us know the same. I do think discussion on those pointers sideline the thread.

I gave you a pass on your repeated antisemitism but I am really not appreciating this condescension from someone who hasn't added anything even remotely interesting to this conversation. Please just stop.

I am eager to listen to what RebekaTuwin has to say as it might potentially be useful information, hopefully helping me and whoever else she sends it to to be able to more critically view these videos from now on. That is all. I highly doubt anything she says will turn me into someone who hates an entire people because of their religion the way you do. "Somewhat sensible" 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️

ThinkWise · 10/11/2023 19:06

Oh, Thats for many asking to @RebekaTuwin to post it in here. If I haven't added any thing that pleases you, how does it matter. I difinitely take it with out checking the insights, because I wondered when IDF is showing them as proof to entire world.

structural · 10/11/2023 19:09

personally feel hamas said that in context of all jews in world has right to have piece of land in Israel/westbank etc. So if you are feared that responsibility goes to who caused for it right?

I now think one of my school buddy could be jews, am dreading to ask. worried that she would be willing to move than I worried about risk for her from hamas. This is all because of the news that Jews around her waiting to migrate and settle.

if my friend is Jew, I wish her to stick with her current home country and people. You have two choices like anyone else over here. Forget about Israel and hamas and live your life. OR worry about hamas and join hands with others who wants hamas and gaza to be their prisoners.
@ThinkWise
wtf does this even mean? Your friend might be "Jew" but you don't know, you're worried she might go to Israel and try to stop Hamas?

HoldOnMiGenna · 10/11/2023 19:32

Thinkwise is saying that a Jew who emigrates to or lives in Israel is joining other Jewish people in holding Hamas and Palestinians prisoners.
Hamas are a valid entity. Israel is not a valid state.
No mealy mouthed separation between Hamas and Palestinians.
Garbled, but honest. Unlike those who perpetrate the " throw rocks, hide hands" anti Semitism on these threads.
Remember, Thinkwise wasn't expressing concern for Jews and any anti Semitism they may or do experience outside of Isrsel.
Thinkwise says that a Jew experiencing anti Semitism has two choices. Stay and put up with the anti Semitism or emigrate to Israel and become an oppressor of both Hamas and Palestinians.
According to that person, a Jew's place in life is between a rock and a hard place where even terrorists' peace of mind being disturbed is them being " held prisoners".
I knew that some of those who celebrated 7th October had to be on these threads.
It was not a negligible amount of people worldwide, after all. The vast majority of races and creeds are represented in those "gatherings", on and offline.

ThinkWise · 10/11/2023 19:33

@structural you cant derail the topic

ThinkWise · 10/11/2023 19:55

@HoldOnMiGenna luckily my friend is not Jew but her neighbourhood is(they were on media attention and so many interviews with them, like myself no one around know who Jews are ,so no point of anti semitism as such.

Settlers are not really welcomed, so they are being placed in westbank and provoked to humiliate locals.

Locals can never get permission to build and entire family should live in one room house and adult children have to flee to have family space. How cruel.

Humdingerydoo · 10/11/2023 20:18

Why am I not surprised to see ThinkWise say she's thankful her friend isn't Jewish

structural · 10/11/2023 20:23

ThinkWise · 10/11/2023 19:55

@HoldOnMiGenna luckily my friend is not Jew but her neighbourhood is(they were on media attention and so many interviews with them, like myself no one around know who Jews are ,so no point of anti semitism as such.

Settlers are not really welcomed, so they are being placed in westbank and provoked to humiliate locals.

Locals can never get permission to build and entire family should live in one room house and adult children have to flee to have family space. How cruel.

Yes, lucky your friend is "not Jew". Because being Jewish and having a "friend" like you would be tough.

And obviously there's no point in anti-Semitism. It still exists though.

OneHurtSpaggettio · 10/11/2023 20:37

RebekaTuwin · 10/11/2023 15:42

@Humdingerydoo
Can I PM you with my observations on the videos that led me to suspect tampering? I typed a long post and think it may derail the thread.

Sorry late to the thread, but I’d appreciate it if you could should it with me as well if you’re happy to. I also find your posts really interesting @RebekaTuwin

NotABeliever · 10/11/2023 21:56

I listened to a podcast On BBC Sounds by Jeremy Owen who said he'd got into Gaza with the IDF a few days ago and all he was filming was carefully censored before being allowed.

NotABeliever · 10/11/2023 22:10

Have you seen this appeal by a British doctor at Shifa hospital in Gaza? So distressing.

x.com/sayeedawarsi/status/1723046382276051418?s=46

ThinkWise · 10/11/2023 22:45

structural · 10/11/2023 20:23

Yes, lucky your friend is "not Jew". Because being Jewish and having a "friend" like you would be tough.

And obviously there's no point in anti-Semitism. It still exists though.

yeah, I worried that what if she reflect her neibourhood community those planning to be settlers (not because of anti-semitism, who got no symathy with gazans. I know few parents friends from DS's previous school, They are lovely and I bet they never watch genocide as right to defend.

We all like free stuff, don't want to blame who want to go and settle there though

Xenia · 10/11/2023 23:28

My greater good point is certainly one many people share. We dropped the H bomb in WWII not just to end the war and save more lives but so we could preserve democracy and our rights and freedoms including the freedom which means I have to listen to pro Palestinian and/or pro Hamas views on here and similarly so others can endure my pro Israel position.

Obviously some people have always been pacifists and would never support any war even if your country is invaded but that is not the view of most people.

As for what film is fake or not most verified sources are pretty sure Hamas invaded Israel and killed people. It would be quite hard to disprove that as there is a lot of separate evidence so hopefully we all agree that happened.

Humdingerydoo · 10/11/2023 23:39

ThinkWise · 10/11/2023 22:45

yeah, I worried that what if she reflect her neibourhood community those planning to be settlers (not because of anti-semitism, who got no symathy with gazans. I know few parents friends from DS's previous school, They are lovely and I bet they never watch genocide as right to defend.

We all like free stuff, don't want to blame who want to go and settle there though

Edited

I just need to clarify as I really struggle to understand what you're saying in your posts - are you saying everyone who lives in Israel is a settler? Because the implication of that would be that you don't think the state of Israel should exist. Is that what you're saying?

structural · 11/11/2023 00:02

ThinkWise · 10/11/2023 22:45

yeah, I worried that what if she reflect her neibourhood community those planning to be settlers (not because of anti-semitism, who got no symathy with gazans. I know few parents friends from DS's previous school, They are lovely and I bet they never watch genocide as right to defend.

We all like free stuff, don't want to blame who want to go and settle there though

Edited

Yeah but you don't have to worry about that because she's "not Jew". Like any Jewish person would be friends with you.

ThinkWise · 11/11/2023 14:15

Humdingerydoo · 10/11/2023 23:39

I just need to clarify as I really struggle to understand what you're saying in your posts - are you saying everyone who lives in Israel is a settler? Because the implication of that would be that you don't think the state of Israel should exist. Is that what you're saying?

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/lsquo-the-jews-rsquo-by-gandhi?utm_content=cmp-true

‘The Jews’ by Gandhi

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/lsquo-the-jews-rsquo-by-gandhi

starborne · 11/11/2023 14:18

So what do you think should happen to the state of Israel and the people living there?

25milesfromhome · 11/11/2023 15:22

From the link, a few of Gandhi’s thoughts on ‘The Jews’ in 1938:

If I were a Jew and were born in Germany and earned my livelihood there, I would claim Germany as my home even as the tallest gentile German may, and challenge him to shoot me or cast me in the dungeon; I would refuse to be expelled or to submit to discriminating treatment

Yes, that approach went very well indeed.

The calculated violence of Hitler may even result in a general massacre of the Jews by way of his first answer to the declaration of such hostilities. But if the Jewish mind could be prepared for voluntary suffering, even the massacre I have imagined could be turned into a day of thanksgiving and joy that Jehovah had wrought deliverance of the race even at the hands of the tyrant.

It… did not.

Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French. It is wrong and inhuman to impose the Jews on the Arabs…
…As it is, they [the Jews] are co-shares with the British in despoiling a people who have done no wrong to them.

They can settle in Palestine only by the goodwill of the Arabs. They should seek to convert the Arab heart. The same God rules the Arab heart who rules the Jewish heart. They can offer satyagraha in front of the Arabs and offer themselves to be shot or thrown into the Dead Sea without raising a little finger against them. They will find the world opinion in their favour in their religious aspiration.

I’m still not really clear on the point you’re making, @ThinkWise are you saying your views are a reflection of Gandhi’s? In answer to the OP’s original question, you’d find it acceptable to bomb Tel Aviv and its civilian population for the greater good and so the world will approve of Jewish people?

feralunderclass · 11/11/2023 17:06

NotABeliever · 10/11/2023 21:56

I listened to a podcast On BBC Sounds by Jeremy Owen who said he'd got into Gaza with the IDF a few days ago and all he was filming was carefully censored before being allowed.

Historically Israel censor everything and/or deny access aswell as heavily surveilling. Academia, journalism, human rights data, NGOs and even aid organizations. Any exposure that is not in their favour is "chilled" by labelling the person/organization an antisemite or fabricating 'evidence' against them to discredit them.

25milesfromhome · 11/11/2023 17:16

There’s some other oppressive, power hungry, lying, murderous governing body in Gaza that does all this too. Mass censorship, intimidating and threatening journalists and aid organisations, suppressing evidence, fabricating data… their name’s just on the tip of my tongue…

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