Number of Palestinians killed in Israeli attacks on Gaza over 10,000 😡

[Ohlalalalala]

Number of Palestinians killed in Israeli attacks on Gaza tops 10,000 https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/6/number-of-palestinians-killed-in-israeli-attacks-on-gaza-tops-10000

makes so much sense now.
what a joke 🤣

Question: what do you think the true endgame is here? With talk of Netanyahu being reticent to scale back or accept a ceasefire due to seeing this as being his only way to hold on to political power and avoid incarceration, what is the mission accomplished scenario?

I genuinely don't know is the honest answer.
I find myself thinking it is a pity that it is Netanyahu in charge during what must be one of the gravest crises in the area in recent years, precisely because it is all too easy to call his motivation and integrity into question.

Perfectly alright, no offense taken and also: genuinely appreciated!

I am angry, too! Currently trying to channel my anger into "reach out to every activist, Israeli, Palestinian, European, American, you have ever known - try to get some sort of joint thing off the ground!"

I was thinking more of the ideology expressed which equates to the far right, war mongering, racist, pro settler Ministers in the Israeli Govt. Do you deny the similarity?

But loads of things Israel don't anything to do with Hamas. Bombing children on the beach? Shooting children hanging out their washing and then lying about it. Killing an autistic man on his way home from school. Stealing land in the West Bank. Preventing people from building proper houses in the West Bank. Raping women. The humiliating way Palestinians are treated in the West Bank. Killing journalists then lying about it. Imprisoning and torturing children. So much that Israel does to Palestinians doesn't actually have anything to with Hamas at all. It's just about control and seeing Palestinians as less than.

Absolutely and I spent years being critical of every one of these events. Israel does need to get its own house in order on those fronts.

I do think Israel has a right to exist though. I suppose I didn't truly believe that Hamas' central goal was the destruction of Israel until I saw what they were prepared to do a month ago.
So I do understand that Israel has to deal with Hamas, but I genuinely couldn't tell you what the best way to do that actually is. The situation seems almost impossible.

very strong words from the UN now

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-chief-says-gaza-becoming-graveyard-children-2023-11-06/

The UN’s secretary general, António Guterres, has warned that “no one is safe” as he reiterated his urgent call for a humanitarian ceasefire.
The situation in Gaza is “more than a humanitarian crisis, it is a crisis of humanity”, Guterres said during a briefing at the UN’s headquarters on Monday.
Israeli ground operations and bombardments are hitting civilians, hospitals, refugee camps, mosques, churches and UN facilities including shelters, he said. The protection of civilians “must be paramount”, he said.
I’m deeply concerned about the clear violations of international humanitarian law that we are witnessing. Let me be clear, no party to an armed conflict is above international humanitarian law.
He said Gaza was “becoming a graveyard for children” with hundreds of boys and girls reportedly killed or injured every day, he said.
More journalists have reportedly been killed over a four-week period than in any conflict in at least three decades. More United Nations aid workers have been killed than in any comparable period in the history of our organisation”

No one has really replied (meaningfully) to my previous post.

Do Israel have a right to aggressively target Hamas?

If so, how could they do it better, given Hamas hides amongst civilians?

This is not about 1947 or looking backwards, it is about what they should do now.

Separately, and I am posting it in a different post, because I think it is a different issue, what should Israel do after Hamas have been destroyed?

Personally I want a lasting peace based on a two state solution. This should be imposed on both sides by the international community. Israel needs to withdraw from the settlements in the occupied territories in return for the Palestinians being monitored and regulated by the UN, meaning no terrorism and no electing terrorist organisations.

I think that the international community, and Israel too, should contribute money to make the territories nice places to live. But, again, somehow (and the how bit is really hard) this money has to be used to benefit civilians, not to pay for weapons or kleptocrat’s billionaire lifestyles.

There are two interesting articles in The Times today, both of which I broadly agree with. I will attempt to share them (though share tokens don’t always work well on here.

British Jews should beware illiberal allies

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/073f1a2a-7cdb-11ee-913f-d6ccb3352dd1?shareToken=9450a8d8c5559337ed29ddc4c84bea5f

Israel may destroy Hamas — but then what?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/6470be26-7cc5-11ee-913f-d6ccb3352dd1?shareToken=797df306bcc29a868c068d5e0e4b80a6

And finally, on a more hopeful note, I wonder what is happening to these guys, whom I have always admired:

https://west-eastern-divan.org/founders

Have you seen what Netanyahu said today?
It's thinly disguised as a form of occupation of Gaza again
That's currently Israels plan

I wrote a whole post on this elsewhere
Il see if I can find it and copy and paste to save writing it out again

@Newbutoldfather maybe we should discuss this on what should Israel do thread

Have you seen what Netanyahu said today?
It's thinly disguised as a form of occupation of Gaza again
That's currently Israels plan

I have and I genuinely think it's to secure Israeli security. It must be a total ballache to implement plus it will attract ongoing international condemnation so I don't think it's a sneaky attempt to reocuppy Gaza for Israelis.

If however settlers start to move back in I'll concede that I got that wrong.

They shouldn’t be under the control of another countries security. This should be done by the other country and/or an external agency. This war is not about the hostages. This war is about power and getting a land that doesn’t belong to them

It's a recipe for disaster I tell you
How do you think the Israeli soldiers will be treated in Gaza by the people?
The people who Israel has killed many family members of in this war
This will not end well and I hope someone who wishes well for Israel can make him see it

I would also prefer to see a neutral third party in charge of Gaza. It's clear that the Israelis have zero trust in the UN however.
And I must say having Iran chairing the UN human rights meeting does seem like a bad joke.

Netanyahu is a deranged power grabbing criminal lunatic
I don't trust a single word that comes out of his mouth
Hopefully he ends up in prison and someone with more common sense and actually wants peace comes into power

Which human rights meeting is this? Honestly the United Nations might aswell be renamed the Useless Nations at this point
Everyday they talk the talk about how the situation is catastrophic in Gaza but what exactly are they doing about it

Absolutely. A bunch of eejits sitting around in suits talking about how killing is bad but doing absolutely nothing. What is the point of them when in a situation like this where clear violations are taking place they just sit around and talk. Israel don't listen, as soon as they hear something they don't like they walk out.

Seems strange to me blaming the UN for being ignored - the UN is only as powerful as the concensus it reaches which can be over-ridden by the US veto

ATM 140 nations want a ceasefire which the US is veto-ing because they want to be the 'policeman of the world' not anyone else

Senior UN officials must have to have very thick skin to be giving generally sensible and not being listened to all the time

Same with the WHO sensible statements being ignored

That's a good point and thank you for educating us on that
It seems so unfair that the US can veto the majority
Why is that even allowed

It's a question that is very difficult to answer.
I agree that they have the right to tackle Hamas. They have the right to defend themselves.
Hamas hide within civilians.
Civilians are dying.
If Israel do nothing Hamas will continue to send in missiles, attack as they did before.

I feel saddened that the countries around Gaza appear to do little to help as in take more refugees, provide food medical supplies etc, not just token amounts.

Mediation is needed. Weapons down for all is needed, though I can't see that happening.

I don't have an answer as most don't. Mediation, diplomatic talks, agreements must be attempted to ve sought.

Your hatred towards Israel is quite shocking.

Honestly, I'm just frustrated and upset. We've been watching 100s of people die every day, we are watching men,women and children starving to death. And nobody is doing anything. It feels like screaming into a void. We are watching an attempted genocide unfold and nobody is doing anything? It's just so unbelievable and inconceivable.