What should the Israeli government do?

[auberginefortea]

I thought I'd start this thread to explicitly ask the question. What should the Israeli government do?

I honestly don't know. I appreciate that Israel was attacked on October 7, and that they need to respond. I'm sure everyone wants peace, but what can Israel do?

I was actually referring to their high number of people that go to third level education(I don't know what you call it in the UK, is it the same? Just post 18 education, university etc) in Gaza not just their literacy level. Obviously this will change now as Israel have targeted universities.

End the occupation.Simple as that. End the blockade on Gaza and remove settlements. Give Equal Rights to ALL category Palestinians ( I say that because posters will jump at me with the "but Palestinians in Israel can be judges" argument)

That won’t fly. They’re trying to erase those people, not elevate them to statehood.

A two state solution is the most logical choice, but war and the participants have rarely been logical in their decisions and actions.
I fear what will happen is that Northern Gaza will be levelled, completely and that the justification will be that civilians were told to move, that it would have been easier to protect the injured and medical staff if they weren’t surrounded by thousands who stayed by choice. So thousands will die, so that the tunnels can be destroyed.
Then Israel will shun Gaza.
Like North and South Korea, a DMZ with deadly consequences for crossing. No more thousands crossing daily to work in Israel, no more supplies, utilities or interaction of any kind other than keeping the barrier through lethal force.
Gaza will rely on the border with Egypt for survival. And the UN, the Pope and everyone else will demand and fuss and be ignored. Just as they are now.

I stand by my post. If you treat people like shit they won't like you.

Do you mean the attacks on October 7th were justified?

Well no. I was talking about the fact that you can't educate people into liking you when you treat them like shit like others were suggesting. Just like my post said.

When you know you’re the good guys.

A lack of reading comprehension and/or wilful ignorance is rampant at the moment! Twisting words seems to be the default for having nothing to say.

When you say "end the occupation and give ALL Palestinians the same rights," does that mean the unfettered right to live and work in Israel? Because that's just asking for a larger massacre by Hamas.

Like it or not, we have two diametrically opposing mindsets here. Modern Israel was founded to be a safe haven for Jews. A large proportion of them were expelled from the surrounding Arab lands. They (quite rightly) don't want to be raped, tortured or murdered. Which is what Hamas has promised and intend to do - full ethnic cleansing.

Palestinians also deserve statehood, autonomy, dignity and respect. They don't deserved to be bombed in Gaza or driven out of their homes on the West Bank, which is a form of ethnic cleansing from the Israelis. The problem is that full freedom and statehood for the Palestinians under Hamas is incompatible with Jewish safety.

The best we can hope for is a frozen conflict. A full withdrawal of Israel from Gaza, after which there will be a DMZ type zone. My guess is that they will blockade the Israel border, hand the keys over to Egypt/Jordan and tell them "it's up to you now." I don't think they will defeat Hamas (with half the bastard leadership in Qatar), but I will eat my hat if stuff is not going on behind the scenes between the various Governments.

West Bank...I don't know what will happen. I don't hold out much hope of a new leadership or democratic change as most of the Palestinian allies prefer despotic rule and the people in charge are corrupt as hell.

Israel also needs to deal with it's rabid right-wingers who are using massacre to go after people living in the West Bank. That's going to be toxic within Israel, but it needs to be addressed. Otherwise, they will be at war with Hezbollah, at this rate.

Yeah a one state solution is just a non starter as a solution as evidenced by the time Trump mentioned it and everyone went 🫢. It wouldn’t work. For example gay rights (who wants a referendum on whether gay people having sex should land them in jail) two very fundamentally opposing views on that. Or for example Hamas, I mean seriously how many of you would be keen to give unrepentant Isis fighters citizenship and invite them to the neighbourhood barbecue? How many of you would be happy to invite the guy who decided your 15yr old should be sent to prison for throwing stones to live next to you? Or one of the IDfF soldiers who came into Gaza. It just wouldn’t work, too much blood has been spilled, too much anger and grief.

A 2 state solution is the only viable option in the long run. But very few people have actually suggested what Israel should do in the short to medium term so far. OP posed a reasonable question and there have been very few constructive responses

Jews lived and prospered for centuries in Arab countries. Their communities were valued. They didn't fear being raped or murdered. The creation of Israel and subsequent conflicts destabilised the region. I wholeheartedly respect the right of Israel to exist in peace but Jewish people lived for centuries happily in the Middle East before the West decided to create the state of Israel.

Put their own genie back in the bottle, throw the bottle into the sea.

I don’t know. I find this Israeli’s posts full of humanity.

Another post by the same person.

Thank you crispedia.

I follow him on Twitter. Love him!

@TheABC It is tricky, but the occupation is the root cause of this, all of this. Even though the Palestinians in East Jerusalem, West Bank and Gaza are not geographically linked, there is collective trauma, and longing for freedom. Freedom in this context is the freedom to roam, work and prosper. Terrorism cannot rise if everyone is doing well in the country because what difference or grievance would the group use to galvanise support? Why would a Palestinian, that can wake up in their own home, travel freely, live in peace, earn a good wage and prosper ever want to join a terror group that will destroy that for them?

This is not mutually exclusive. To be Pro Israel, one needs to be Pro Palestinian. Unfortunately, Israel will forever be fighting Hamas like terrorists if it continues its treatment of Palestinians in the WB and East Jerusalem. But they cannot guarantee international support will continue. One must remember that they have support now, from the the global North/Western Europe, but the tides are changing and economies in the South and Far East; who have for centuries endured colonialism, will not be too forgiving. There is a falling rate of practising Jews, and increased discrimination between ethnic Jewish groups, so the world is not going to be able to look past that in decades to come. How can Israel really be a safe haven for Jews when the threat of violence is round the corner? when you need security and military armed within an inch of their lives? That is not living. How can it be a safe haven when Yemeni, Sudanese and Ethiopian Jews are discriminated against? It is advertised as safe if your face fits, and that is not going to stand the test of time. Jewish people do not feel more safe in Israel, which is terrible. But the status quo is not going to help.

I say at least try and begin with admitting that there is an occupation , that Palestinians deserve to be safe too, and to have self determination and I would even add contemplate that those in the diaspora have the right to return, because why wouldn't they be allowed to go home?

The Palestinians in the WB have complied and gone down the non violent route, trying to just get on with their lives; accepting military rule. But the incessant and relentless expansion of settlements is suffocating them. That on top of the inequitable access to water, roads etc is just really really unfair. It is humiliating. Settler violence and provocation is increasing and it is fuelling tension.

I genuinely think a nation for everyone works and I see it happening, not in my lifetime, but maybe my children's. Equal rights for all. Secular in politics perhaps? Or maybe have a Jewish PM and a Christian/Druze/Muslim President? Like they have in Lebanon?

Yes, Jews lived in Arab countries for centuries. They were always second class citizens though. That's why there was peace - they accepted life as second class citizens in exchange for peace and quiet. There were also occasional pogroms even in Arab countries before Israel was established.

The worldwide hatred of Jews is the reason there is a state of Israel, not the other way around.

And that sucked so they created a state where they treat Palestinians as second class citizens, humiliate, terrorise and murder them? If Jewish people didn't like it why would they think Palestinians would? Peace will never happen until Israel can accept that Palestinians deserve the same rights as they do.

They created a state that was then attacked by all surrounding states, resulting in today's situation. The intention was never for it to be a state constantly at war but 75 years later, here we are.

Peace will also never happen until Palestinians accept that Israel also deserves to exist. It's all a two-way street.

I'm sure the intent wasn't to create an apartheid state but that's what they did. Of course it's a 2 way street but look at the Palestinians in the West Bank, they do everything 'right' they quietly live in their shacks in Area C because Israel won't let them build houses, they endure humiliation and being treated like second class citizens but still that's not good enough for Israel. They still kick them out of their homes. There is no evidence at all to suggest that Israel believes Palestinians have the right to exist peacefully without being terrorised. Why would you like the people who have driven you out of your homes and treated you like crap? Allow people to prosper and they will respect you, respect is earned, it can't be demanded.

Best way to get along with your neighbours is to stay out of their garden. As long as illegal settlements continue, Israel is making so real efforts towards peace.

No, they didn't create an apartheid state. They created a state. Stop using inflammatory language just for the sake of it.

Your description of people living in the West Bank is inaccurate. They don't all just live there quietly. A lot of them try to attack and kill Israelis on a regular basis, and have been doing so for decades. You just don't hear about it because the settlers are currently behaving just as badly and as they're Israeli, they're the preferred bad guys. But really, they're all as bad as each other.

No evidence at all that Israel believes Palestinians deserve peaceful lives? You've clearly not been paying very close attention to the news in recent years. How many Israelis do you think actually voted for Netanyahu? You seem to think it's some kind of majority 🤦🏻‍♀️

Anyway, I have zero interest in arguing with you. Arguing with someone who is blaming one side for absolutely everything is a waste of my time.

Are you saying Israel shouldn't exist in the first place? Or are you just talking about settlers in the West Bank?

BTW I'm not saying it will be easy and without hiccups. I'm not saying there hasn't been bad behaviour on both sides but at the end of the day Israel has the power not Palestinians so they are the ones with the power to change things and that has to start with accepting that they have played a role in all of this. The bizarre propaganda, the bizarre but we just want peace whilst operating an apartheid state, the lying, the weird attacks on anyone that doesn't 100% agree with them like accusing Ireland of funding Hamas tunnels and saying Palestians should go to 'Ireland or the desert', having a hissy fit when the UN calls them out, accusing human rights charities of being antisemitic when they don't agree with them. It's all so odd and so combative and so unnecessary. Just own your shit and deal with it like adults or this is never going to be fixed but personally I don't believe Israel want peace, they want Palestinians gone.