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Conflict in the Middle East

What should the Israeli government do?

195 replies

auberginefortea · 05/11/2023 13:04

I thought I'd start this thread to explicitly ask the question. What should the Israeli government do?

I honestly don't know. I appreciate that Israel was attacked on October 7, and that they need to respond. I'm sure everyone wants peace, but what can Israel do?

OP posts:
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HeidiInTheBigCity · 05/11/2023 14:05

Sit, breathe in, breathe out, think, strategise - and then, even though I do not in any way shape or form condone the death penalty - use its leading intelligence capabilities to identify the people responsible and take them out using surgical strikes. So: selectively. Without starving and murdering swathes of civilians in the process.

And, yes, they are perfectly capable of implementing this strategy - they used to use it!

And then, it should request the support of the so-called international community to avoid a power vacuum in Gaza without getting embroiled in another bloody direct occupation.

In the somewhat more overarching, strategic sense: they must start working now towards a truly fair resolution to the conflict. A genuine one, not some sort of supposedly "generous" offer that no Palestinian leader would ever politically survive agreeing to because it is designed to look fair to US Americans rather than Palestinians.

And they should do this not because it is the "nice" thing to do, but because it is in their own best strategic interest in the long term! So far, Israel has enjoyed the unbridled support of so-called Western powers because it has been geopolitically expedient for them to offer it. Forget about all that nice, fluffy "but democracy and shared values" talk - the USA, UK & Co. could not possibly care less whether or not Israelis get to hold a Pride parade in Tel Aviv! They care because Israel has been a useful wedge and a proxy in the region, and because it has often been willing to do the dirty work when domestic political opinion would have made it difficult for major powers to do so directly! But we have already been seeing a shift of focus away from the ME and towards issues such as e.g. China in recent years. The ME has already been kind of "low key ignored" for a while. The cold war is over, and the post-cold-war unipolar world order is dying - if it has not already stopped breathing off a ventilator. And therefore, the strategic value of Israel is changing, too - especially if its policies threaten relationships with allies that are gaining in importance or are serving as a distraction.

Long story short: Israel, in its own best interest, ought to negotiate in good faith now - not once it has potentially lost a lot of bargaining power because its value as an ally against China is greatly diminished!

... naturally, all of this would necessitate an Israeli government with actual political legitimacy, that was not on the brink of being ousted by a tidal wave of protests prior to 7 October - and one that does not consist of extreme rightwing ideologues and a self-serving PM who mostly wants to save his own skin at this point.

Reallifelurker · 05/11/2023 14:12

Ah! I didn't realise it was that easy. Thanks for explaining. Maybe send this on a postcard to the IDF, they clearly lack your incisive strategic intelligence.

Bold of you to assume minimising civilian deaths is on their list of priorities.

Eggandcresssandwich · 05/11/2023 14:27

The Israeli government has had the Palestinians living in occupation and apartheid for decades so at a guess maybe they could start there OP.

NotSuchASmugMarried · 05/11/2023 15:21

They should go in hard and fast for a swift victory regardless of the cost to human life. I saw this because the massive loss of civilian life is inevitable and Israel won't stop until Hamas is gone so a swift victory is preferable. Hopefully by year end. If not, then spring at the latest.

It's guerilla militia. Not gorilla militia. Guerilla are an unofficial military group. Gorilla are animals.

Walkure · 05/11/2023 15:30

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Brrrrrrrrrrrr · 05/11/2023 15:35

It’s difficult when your neighbours are governed by a barbaric extremist party. The terror attack they committed was that of savage animals, truly hideous, how do you deal with that kind of devolved mentality?

Israel clearly has no choice but to do everything in their power to ensure nothing like that takes place ever again.

Daftasabroom · 05/11/2023 15:38

soddingspiderseason · 05/11/2023 13:13

Nonsense. Its the Palestinians who have refused a 2 state solution numerous times because they want to destroy Israel, not live in peace. That's the stated aim of Hamas and Hezbollah - to kill all Jews. Its Hamas who breached the most recent ceasefire by committing atrocities and declaring war on Israel. Hamas has to be removed. There is no possibility of peace whilst they still operate in Gaza.

What about a return to the 1945 borders?

Walkure · 05/11/2023 15:39

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ItsRainingTacos79 · 05/11/2023 16:12

The Israeli government rejected a two state solution in 2016 when John Kerry presented a plan with Israel pulling back to 1967 borders and Jerusalem becoming the capital for both states and an end to Israeli occupation. Mahmoud Abbas was keen to resume the peace process if Israel stopped further settlement construction.

Sadly settlement construction has always been the obstacle which the Israeli government doesn't want to address. It feeds resentment which continues to manifest itself in ongoing Hamas atrocities.

Alcemeg · 05/11/2023 16:55

We've all suddenly become armchair experts in the complicated politics of Gaza.

It just surprises me how many on MN seem to think Israel is acting in a totally unreflected way, without any thought for their own future or anyone else's.

If they wanted to destroy Gaza, regardless of civilian life, that would make life a lot simpler. They could probably have done it within a few hours!

Oliotya · 05/11/2023 18:30

Alcemeg · 05/11/2023 16:55

We've all suddenly become armchair experts in the complicated politics of Gaza.

It just surprises me how many on MN seem to think Israel is acting in a totally unreflected way, without any thought for their own future or anyone else's.

If they wanted to destroy Gaza, regardless of civilian life, that would make life a lot simpler. They could probably have done it within a few hours!

Plausible deniability obviously. Do it all at once, Israel would get in trouble.
Don't you dare try and claim that bombing the shit out of civilians is some humanitarian act for the greater good.

Parkingt111 · 05/11/2023 18:52

Oliotya · 05/11/2023 18:30

Plausible deniability obviously. Do it all at once, Israel would get in trouble.
Don't you dare try and claim that bombing the shit out of civilians is some humanitarian act for the greater good.

Exactly
Thank you
I can't understand this repetitive nonsense that people keep sprouting that just because Israel have the power to fully obliterate Gaza but still haven't is a sign that they are a moral army who care about civilians
It's absolute rubbish and talk about lowering the bar
It was only today that a an Israeli minister suggested dropping a atomic bomb was a option (and yes I know he was suspended after it started circulating in mainstream media but I doubt it's a lone opinion amongst the far right)

Reallifelurker · 05/11/2023 18:55

It’s difficult when your neighbours are governed by a barbaric extremist party. The terror attack they committed was that of savage animals, truly hideous, how do you deal with that kind of devolved mentality?

As I said before I think Israel actually underestimated Hamas.

I’ve read some article posted on other threads that suggested the Israeli government allowed Hamas to get on with it because they felt they could play them off against the leaders of the West Bank. So leaving the conflict in Gaza aside for a minute I think they need a less corrupt more competent government.

Ahtishoo · 05/11/2023 19:05

The trouble with @Oliotya ’s theory is that it is unfalsifiable: if Israel bomb Gaza to smithereens, that’s clear genocide; If they don’t obliterate Gaza, it’s a sneaky attempt to do genocide bit by bit. When there’s no information that could make you reconsider your position, you are in the realm of conspiracy theory.

Parkingt111 · 05/11/2023 19:11

Ahtishoo · 05/11/2023 19:05

The trouble with @Oliotya ’s theory is that it is unfalsifiable: if Israel bomb Gaza to smithereens, that’s clear genocide; If they don’t obliterate Gaza, it’s a sneaky attempt to do genocide bit by bit. When there’s no information that could make you reconsider your position, you are in the realm of conspiracy theory.

This is pretty damning apart from the death toll they really do want to just leave Gaza a waste land
Iv seen many videos of large groups of IDF soldiers singing how they will turn Gaza to a wasteland

What should the Israeli government do?
Parkingt111 · 05/11/2023 19:13

Or even from the government themselves
It seems there's many in the government who don't distinguish between Hamas and the innocent civilians

What should the Israeli government do?
What should the Israeli government do?
Noicant · 05/11/2023 19:23

I don’t know, the problem is even if they get the leadership there are still 300 miles of tunnels underneath Gaza that hold weapons etc that can be used at a later date if they aren’t collapsed. killing off the leadership while leaving tunnels and stockpiles of weapons doesn’t seem like a viable strategy either.

I really sincerely hope that after this everyone is dragged to the table and a formal partition is agreed. Everyone must be sick and tired of being scared and losing people. Everyone. Neither the Palestinians nor the Israelis can genuinely say to their people that they are safe in their own homes until that happens. Then no pissing about about settlements or obligations around utilities supply. They can have a giant DMZ, a massive wall and never have to go anywhere near each other ever again.

Dulra · 05/11/2023 19:29

Parkingt111 · 05/11/2023 19:13

Or even from the government themselves
It seems there's many in the government who don't distinguish between Hamas and the innocent civilians

Scary, completely unhinged.

In answer to your question op Israel need to pause, seriously try and negotiate safe passage for their hostages, you take hostages as a bargaining chip what do Hamas want? Both sides can't keep killing each other it will never end. America need to take some responsibility for the two hundred and something billion they've given to Israel for arms. Iran need to be seriously pressured by all nations over funding Hamas and work needs to start on negotiating a solution

Creatingusernamesismygame · 05/11/2023 19:31

flufferknutter · 05/11/2023 13:36

And yet we have to constantly contend with the Palestinians all being called Hamas members who want rid of Israel. And people against the genocide being called Hamas sympathisers too.

Funny that.

Agreed. In recent days, it appears that if you show sympathy for the innocent Palestinian civilians then you are automatically pro Hamas.
if you show solidarity with the pro Palestine marches then you are automatically antisemitic.

Alliannna · 05/11/2023 19:34

The Israeli's need to take out Hamas. As quickly and with the least loss of civilian lives as possible. Which is what they are trying to do. Palestinians will also be better off without being ruled by terrorists.

Ahtishoo · 05/11/2023 19:36

I agree they can’t negotiate with Hamas.

Parkingt111 · 05/11/2023 19:51

I absolutely despair that after 30 days of indiscriminate bombing and yes that is what it is
There are people who still think Israel is taking care not to attack civilians

Parkingt111 · 05/11/2023 19:55

Although I must say that as each day goes by and more and more countries openly criticise Israel for this, the people who still think this are greatly reducing

Toothyfruity · 05/11/2023 20:16

Israel is clearly trying to destroy Gaza. Anyone who still can't or won't see that is willfully blind. Today they sent out more warnings to everyone in the top two thirds of Gaza to move to the bottom third. A much larger area than before. Here is the flier if you care to see for yourself https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzRFUvBMPZE/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

They are clearly ethnically cleansing the Gaza strip so that the Palestinians who survive the genocidal bombardment will be pushed either into Egypt if it'll take them, or into refugee camps in the desert.

So Israel wants to destroy Gaza and they are also upping their violence and land theft in the West Bank.

If they did want to come to a peaceful solution, which they don't, they would end the 15 year blockade on Gaza, they would hand back lands stolen since 1967 and they would stop stealing more land. That would be a good start. Oh, and stop supporting and facilitating the funding of Hamas ffs.

Instagram

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzRFUvBMPZE?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA%3D%3D