What should the Israeli government do?

[auberginefortea]

I thought I'd start this thread to explicitly ask the question. What should the Israeli government do?

I honestly don't know. I appreciate that Israel was attacked on October 7, and that they need to respond. I'm sure everyone wants peace, but what can Israel do?

They are fighting back against their enemies as we in the UK would do if we were invaded.

Yes we all know your view
You must have been delighted today to see that the Israeli minister has the same view as you on nuclear bombing the enemies

Parkingt111 I must have missed where Xenia advocated nuclear bombing the enemies. We know your view too.

I can find it on the thread it was posted and send it to you if you think I'm making it up
That's If the post hasn't been deleted,
And please do share what you think my view is
No need to hold back

Nonsense. Hamas broke the ceasefire by committing appalling, barbaric atrocities. Israel reacted to that by seeking to destroy Hamas and their capacity to ever do the sand again. Should they just sit and wait for Hamas to come back as they have vowed they would?

Agreed.

So you agree with how they have reacted?

hey @toothyfruity, please tell us how you think Israel should have reacted...

@auberginefortea in response to your question I posted this on another thread to different poster but have copied and pasted parts of it here to save typing it out again

If I was to focus specifically on the war then I believe that Netanyahu has had his ego severely bruised. It couldn't have come at a worst time for him and he will do anything to show he is the tough guy, I really believe that he will do anything to hold onto his power

I mean the majority of Israelis don't have faith in him with regards to the affairs of Israel and yet we are expected to just have faith that he will give a flying about the innocent civilians in Gaza
He doesn't help himself by some of the comments he makes like 'the children of darkness etc'

I read in the news today that a member of the US Congress said today in a interview that there is no threshold on how many civilians can be killed, this sort of narrative from the west only serves to demonise Israel further

Again as you say there are no easy answers but I do believe there should be some red lines that should not be crossed
Bombing refugee camps is one of them whether Hamas is there or not

There should have been designated safe zones, Israel knows that the innocent have nowhere to go.
They instructed people to move to certain places in the south and then bombed them

Aid should have come in alot quicker and at a much larger scale
Again Israel is the obstacle in allowing aid in as they give the go ahead to how much can go in
What is coming in now is still a drop in the ocean compared to what is needed

They need to stop killing and attacking journalists and their families

They need to stop asking hospitals to evacuate when they know that this will be a death sentence for many patients

The above are just a few points from the top of my head but there are many many more

The right wing government in Israel have said some absolutely horrific things I won't post them again on here as you have seen elsewhere that I have. It is genocidal rhetoric.

Like any other democracy there should be Accountability
I believe the western governments have done Israel a great disservice by fanning the flames of war rather than to try and encourage a measured calculated response. Who will bear the brunt of the outcomes of this war? Israel and Gaza will.
Certainly not the US or UK

It’s a good question really and I think looking at it clinically is quite difficult for most people because they see the consequences on their TV’s for the Gazan people.

They could basically tighten their security and just try to bat away missile strikes, assassinate the leaders, not go into Gaza, tighten the blockade no work visas for Gazans DMZ etc. that leaves the problem of new leaders or an alternative group taking over but still continuing weapons stockpiling, continuing development of tunnels continuing war chest building on the part of Hamas.

Does that then equal a much bigger attack in the future with a much higher death toll for the Israelis. And then they again try to tighten their security whilst hamas (or their replacement) again keep investing in weapons, building tunnels, building their war chest.

Given what a stranglehold Hamas has in Gaza I’m not sure they would just disappear if left to their own devises and Israel just acted defensively.They aren’t stupid either they will have succession plans.

In the long run hopefully everyone will be sick of Israeli and Palestinian blood being spilled and will just get on with a partition agreement. Not Hamas though, they’ve been clear that their own civilian casualties are worth it and that they aren’t actually responsible for civilians in any case (thats the UN’s job apparently) so I am doubtful they can be part of a peace negotiation. In addition to that if I were Gazan I wouldn’t want them to be my government, they have form for torture and murder of Gazans they don’t like are thieves and liars.

I agree with some of your points, I had hoped for designated safe areas near the Rafah crossing that could be administered by UN peacekeepers or the Egyptians and where aid could be delivered quickly, water, food, medical assistance.

There was a report though that the reason it took so long to open the crossing was because Hamas kept putting hamas fighters on the lists of evacuees. So even a designated safe zone would be difficult to keep hamas free (I would still support it on the basis that you could still pop mossad in there to grab hamas fighters) and that civilians could be sure they won’t be bombed.

I think the shock was so severe for Israelis that they started planning what to do with Hamas and their own hostages as their own priority.

The hospitals may contain vital Hams infrastructure, Israel has released images of tunnel entrances right next to hospitals in Gaza (I mean literally next to the walls). The use of hospitals as bases has previously been widely reported. I don’t know if there is anyway that ground troops can collapse the tunnels without harming the hospitals as obviously there will be multiple entries and exit point within the hospital and on the grounds as well. It’s all so grim. No idea what you do about that, you could lay siege to the hospitals individually I suppose so they aren’t bombed but cut off routes out that come out outside the hospital and then I don’t know try to pick off anyone firing at you.

In the short to medium term, there are no solutions only terrible trade-offs. Longer term they should build schools. Fund schools in Gaza and the West Bank. Choke off Hamas at the source; no more angry and desperate children to swell their ranks.

Indeed, as IHL is universal it is insane that a government cannot be criticized for repeatedly breaking it.

Israel already has laws, regulation, public discussions on these sort of topics but they need to absolutely enforce a no Jews in the settlements policy's, crackdown on 'jewish charitys' masquerading as religious supporters despite funnelling millions into illigal housing estates (medical supplies/food/transport ect) especially from american & 'modern orthodox' abroad supporters (who seem to be at the forefront of these sort of things compared to the ultra orthodox/non practicing) & bring in a neutral person to re divide the (whole) state -

Unfortunately it's not an easy subject as alot of israelis do & dont support whatevers suggested even by their own government for good reasons of their own but these attacks have been happening for years its just that this one & the subsequent war has had a significantly higher amount of israel supporters despite what you see in the muslim protests - im quite young & have never ever seen such popularity for that particular state in my lifetime

At the moment schools in the West Bank are being ransacked by state backed Israeli settlers after they violently force communities to leave their homes and farms so your suggestion would certainly be a turnaround for Israel.

Longer term other countries will likely help in this. Israel will cut ties

In short term focus on the serious threat of Hamas

Palestinians are actually pretty well educated, they have a higher literacy rate than Israelis do and a high number of people attend(or at least did attend when they existed as more than rubble) universities. The problem is the lack of opportunity after they get this education. Israel have a choke hold on the economy in Gaza and it's that that limits what people can do afterwards. Imagine if the UK were allowed next to no imports or exports what that would do to their economy? Gaza is very small, they aren't even allowed to import things to manage their own water system for example so of course opportunities are limited. Israel should of course rebuild all of the schools and universities it has destroyed but that isn't the solution to much in the long term if they continue to purposefully keep people in poverty.

How were Israel to deal with a well funded guerilla militia. Boots on the ground in Gaza?

From what I've been shown on these threads children are role playing hate from infancy.

The hearts of the next generations need to be educated away from hate. I'm sure there are people on the ground doing that, they need our support.

And once again
They should STOP bombing refugee camps!

On Sunday Israeli warplanes struck two refugee camps, killing at least 53 people and wounding dozens in central Gaza, the zone where Israel’s military had urged Palestinian civilians to seek refuge, health officials said.
At least 40 people were killed in the Maghazi refugee camp and dozens injured. * *

I did not recommend the nuclear option in this case. However I did say that in WWII that was one option to allow freedom to prevail and reserve our nation, culture and values which we used as was bombing Dresden.War is awful.

Isreal should abide by agreed rules of warfare.

They are absolutely correct in responding to what Hamas have done.

Watching women who had obviously been raped being captured, children being murdered, there are no words. No words for the level of barbarism Hamas committed.

However what is happening now is depraved as well.

There are plenty of good Israeli people and good people around the world who are speaking out about Israel’s retaliation.

I meant to quote @quantumbutterfly here.

I'd love to know how you think you 'educate' people out of what they know to be true? It's a fact that children in Gaza are growing up under collective punishment, they are growing up watching Israel kill their friends and family and growing up watching Israel bomb their school(even before this current 'conflict'), growing up knowing Israel are limiting their water supplies, growing up knowing Israel are limiting their opportunities, growing up knowing that when in the West Bank people like them are still controlled by Israel, they have their land stolen, when they are allowed to keep it in a lot of instances they can't have proper houses on the land because Israel don't give permission, they can't use certain roads or walk down certain streets because Israel don't see them as equal. Every leading human rights organisation agrees that they are subject to apartheid. 40% of Palestinian men are arrested by Israel, if tried they are tried in military courts with a 99% conviction rate. Children know all of this, they see all of this. How can you educate them not to dislike the people who are doing this to to them? The only way to stop people disliking you for treating them like shit is to stop treating them like shit.

Palestinians are very educated, it is because of this they can see the injustice that Israel have put their people through, it's trope spread by Israel that Palestinian people are primitive people who just need to be educated.

Even assuming all the things you say are true @OuiOuiKitty (and many of them are contested), nothing justifies deliberately murdering, raping and torturing civilians. So to the extent that that is supported within Gaza, education is necessary.

Many of them are contested by who exactly? I'm not sure how you can contest the truth.

I stand by my post. If you treat people like shit they won't like you.

The vast majority of Jewish Israelis don't care if Palestinian civilians die in Israels fight against Hamas. Why is no one suggesting that they need to be educated? After all Israelis are generally less educated than Palestinians. Why is this trope only going one way? Why have 2 posters on this page mentioned that Palestinians need to be educated but not one has mentioned that Israelis do? Nothing justifies the killing of children in their beds, starving children of food, water and aid, traumatising over 1million children, the wiping out of entire bloodlines of innocent people, the killing of nearly 90 UN workers in a month etc We should be looking to educate both sides on kindness and tolerance surely?

You’re slightly running away with your interpretation of the high level of Palestinian literacy (which I posted about in the first place). It doesn’t mean that Palestinians are more educated than Israelis or vice versa, it literally just means they can read.