Anti Semetism IS happening

[AbsoluteYawns]

and in my opinion it's a direct result of people turning a blind eye to and excusing the horror of hamas and everything they stand for. It's allowed open season on anti Jewish hate. This has happened TODAY in France.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/11/04/woman-stabbed-lyon-france-antisemitic-attack-israel-hamas/

Here it is:

twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1720887237124985027

Sorry what? Who should have their visa taken away from them? 🤯 Are you of the view that anybody pro-Palestinian must be an immigrant?

A good point that no one seems willing or able to answer

Antisemitism has always been rife in the UK and I’m so sorry that it’s getting worse. For those saying they haven’t seen it I wonder where you live and who you mix with. It may be that comments are indeed being heard but just not recognised as antisemitism.

I heard a university lecturer making antisemitic comments back in the 90s, also people commenting on an antisemitic manner on Jewish co workers in more recent years. I of course called this out.

Yesterday an academic posted on LinkedIn that her Jewish neighbour went this weekend to buy smarties with his 5 year old daughter at a supermarket in the UK. A man next to them in the queue slammed down his shopping, shouted out that he wouldn’t shop next to murderers and stormed out. Not one member of staff approached the victims of this verbal abuse.

TBF many other pro Palestinian marchers step in to defend him.

They presumably do not think they are on an anti semetic hate march.

I don't think the marches are hate marches or anti-Semitic in the main, but there is definitely an element of that present. I have also seen some anti-Semitic posts on Facebook. Posts from people like me who are fairly left wing, not right wing nutters. It is really depressing.

You really should go to a march before you say these ridiculous things - the marchers are for peace and for Palestine i.e. against Israel's long-term apartheid policies for one. To confuse this with pro-Hamas is depressing indeed, if not wilful ignorance.

I for one can't stand to see every criticism of Israeli policy labelled antisemitism.

@IClaudine thank you for sharing. I see a few things here. I see the person with the placard wanting a reaction as there is no other reason for doing what he did in the middle of a pro-Palestine protest. I also see a handful of people giving him a negative reaction and behaving in a shameful and aggressive manner whilst the majority of people ignore or restrain those causing trouble including reiterating that it's no place for violence.

TBF many other pro Palestinian marchers step in to defend him.

I am very much pro-Israel but yes, I have seen this on a number of different videos, not just this one, of things happening on the marches - other protesters stepping in.

I have encountered it, I used to think they were sad individuals not representative of a wider world view, now I would hope they were on watchlist.
There are some wicked manipulators targeting vulnerable people, we have to make connections to each other to feed our humanity and build cohesive communities.

@backtowinter Our government is a lot more complicit in the Israel-Gaza conflict, like it was in the Iraq war. Hence why the marches across the UK. The situation in Yemen, Myanmar, Uyghurs in China etc - the UK wields very little influence in these conflicts/injustices otherwise I'm sure we would be speaking up about them even more - not that there hasn't been outrage over these conflicts/injustices.

I am appalled by what Hamas did. I am equally appalled by what Israel is now doing.

It's only the Jewish posters on here, who don't seem to have even attended any of said events, who insist this is all about Jewish people

I wouldn’t attend a march. To protest you need to understand the complexities of a conflict. And this is incredibly complex. I struggle to grasp. The state of Israel was doomed to internecine conflict at its inception by the foreign powers who were the signatories of various mandates and treaties. Netanyahu has worked against peace and taken his eye off the ball as Hamas increases in strength and anger. He wants Palestines land . Hamas want all Jewish people annihilated and has vowed to do that.

Getting to the truth is almost impossible. To march for peace is 5 year old stuff. They are marches to show how appalling the situation is. And that’s fair enough. But until you have an Israeli government and a Palestinian head of state who are prepared to sit round a table and not make their civilians pay the ultimate price for their intransigence any chance of peace is a distant dream.

A march for peace and calling for a ceasefire is a naive, meaningless venting of hate and anger that causes further division and racism. Israel can’t just let Hamas carry on as they are. They embed their fighters in and under hospitals, schools, apartment blocks. They siphon off aid and fuel, sent to help their desperate civilians. They have no regard for human life. Israel under Netanyahu has no appetite for peace either. Both sides have extremists at their helm and both have world powers by their sides, with vested interests in keeping this war going. A march calling for stopping the war and negotiations by the key protagonists. That I would attend.

@Cropcycle what you say at the end is what the people marching want - for the key players to stop bombing innocent civilians and to discuss a way forward.

I think it’s extremist because it assumes people have a right to land based solely on religion. It assumes that people can emigrate from around the world and automatically have a right to settle in that country based on their religion, even if they have no recent ancestors in that country, and push non-Jewish people who have lived in those areas for generations out of their homes. It assumes that religion is a good enough reason to expel people who are not part of that religion out of homes they had owned for centuries on the basis of it being someone else’s ‘homeland.’ It assumes a religious superiority, where people from one group have a ‘right’ to live in a country or area based on religion regardless of whether they have any ancestral history in that land. It is extremist because it assumes that the non-Jewish people who were living in Israel previously did not have a right to a homeland and could be expelled to make way for others based solely on religion. I think any view which assumes people have a right to land based on religion, and have the right to expel others from a land based on them not belonging to that religion, is extremist.

To add, I would think the same if it was Christians, Muslims, Sikhs or any other religion seeking to establish a homeland in a country by pushing those who were already living there out. I think people from all religions deserve the right to love in peace, but I don’t think they have a divine right to any areas of land based on their religious history alone.

It's entirely your perogative to attend or not. My eyes are just exhausted from rolling at the posters who conflate anyone who cares about the human rights situation in Palestine as (and yes I've seen all of these labels) :

antisemitic
Jew haters
Pro Hamas
Obsessed with Palestinians
Ignorant
Failing to understand complexity of situation
Sixth former activists
Blue haired lefty

I'm sure I've missed out on a lot,these are the ones I can remember off the top of my head.
There is nothing complex about a 'civil' State killing more than 10k people (majority of whom are civilians) in response to a terrorist attack, with more than one third being children. Especially when that state has been historically killing them.

I would never attend an event where there was any call for antisemitism, and the people I know wouldn't either. I see the above labels now as nothing other than a deflective hasbara, and it not only attempts to reduce the lives of the Palestinians to worthlessness, but also positions those who care as being hateful ignoramus' who are just using this conflict as an outlet for their antisemitic feelings.

The marches are called Pro-Palestinian protests. That’s not calling for peace. They are chanting about freeing Palestine. That involves a two state resolution. So why not call it an end the war protest. Or a Peace march. But they’re not called that and they aren’t asking for that. They are marching against the dreadful price Palestinians are paying at the hands of extremists in Israel and Palestine. Call them that and march for that. That’s fair enough. But these marches are not calling for peace.

Agree.
I read a comment under the mail article linked above...hard times bring strong leaders, strong leaders bring good times, good times bring weak leaders, weak leaders bring hard times.rinse and repeat. Strong is such a subjective value.

Comments sections like Mumsnet are vox pop. Like trying to make sense of the world through the compound eyes of a fly, but a general picture emerges.

The media and posters on here are calling them Pro Palestine marches. Stop the War Coalition, Trade Unions and other actual organizers are not referring to them as that. I attended one a few days ago that was called Stop the Genocide. And it's just awful that even "Pro-Palestine" is being regarded as such a derogatory term.

I don't think the marchers are marching for peace. Alot of them look incredibly aggressive and carrying inflammatory signs. Such a contrast to the vigil for the hostages a few weeks ago which was quiet and respectful.

The video linked on here of the response to an MSP showed the aggression from many

I haven’t watched the one below with the man with sign attacked but I’m not surprised

Israel is not the only religious 'homeland', Pakistan was created with great bloodshed as an Islamic homeland, Bangladesh too I believe
It exists now and we move forward from where we are. A 2 state solution and an end to jihad against Israel.

There is nothing complex about a 'civil' State killing more than 10k people (majority of whom are civilians)

How many German civilians do you think Britain killed in WW2? It was over 2M.

Does that make Britain genocidal in WW2?

Maybe you might consider that wars and civilian casualties are more complex than you think?

I’m aware it’s not the only conflict where land has been drawn on religious boundaries, I recognise that if you look at history what has happened with regards to Israel/ Palestine is not necessarilly unique. The countries you mention did not arise without conflict either and there is for example ongoing conflict in Kashmir regarding whether it should belong to India or Pakistan.

I also agree that Israel exists and that a solution needs to be made from where we are now, regardless of whether people, in hindsight, agree with the creation of Israel.

That doesn’t mean I don’t think some aspects of Zionism are extremist or that some Israelis don’t hold extremist views regarding their ‘right’ to land, especially with regards to the Israeli settlers in the West Bank. A 2-state solution will include challenging the extremist views on both ‘sides’, there absolutely needs to be an end to jihad against Israel but there also needs to be an end to extremist Zionist views with regards to which areas of land they do and don’t have a ‘right’ to settle on based on their ideas of Israel being their homeland.

It's not a Muslim 'homeland', as Muslims are not automatically entitled to live there because their grandmother was a Muslim. They were both created by partition due to internal conflict. So not comparable at all.