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Conflict in the Middle East

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How do prevent the rise of anti Semitic feeling in the UK?

700 replies

mids2019 · 03/11/2023 10:09

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12705139/Jewish-ambassador-says-London-feels-safe-Israel-jihad-ideology-exploded-capitals-streets.html

Will the continuous marches in London lead to an environment where anti semitism becomes acceptable? There has been a massive rise in hate crime against Jews and surely in the UK we have a duty to prevent any platform which may lead to unjustified hatred of a group in the UK?

I feel we should feel pride we have a diverse society with a while range of ethnicities and religions but we should always act to encourage social cohesion by not allowing events that could contain messages of hate.

Although the support of the Palestinian people is absolutely reasonable in terms of free speech in a democratic society and it is reasonable to comment on the actions of the Israeli state at times the marches in a lot of major British cities have the danger of including terrorist apologists.

Jewish ambassador says London feels less safe than Israel

Tzipi Hotovely told the Daily Telegraph that the Jewish community felt fear due to 'jihad ideology' witnessed during pro-Palestinian protests in the capital city over the past month.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12705139/Jewish-ambassador-says-London-feels-safe-Israel-jihad-ideology-exploded-capitals-streets.html

OP posts:
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SoftFire · 03/11/2023 13:58

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I see, antisemitism is the Jews' fault again.

Just like the Black Death, the Spanish Inquisition, the pogroms, the Holocaust...

EasterIssland · 03/11/2023 13:59

Thanks OP I’ll post this link when people in other threads say that living in Israel is no safe atm as rockets are being sent by hamas and hezbollah and that people are living scared and in safe places atm. If someone from the embassy is saying Israel is more secure atm then I’m not sure what this people mean 🤔

BareGrylls · 03/11/2023 13:59

The majority of blatant antisemitism I've seen (I mean properly blatant, not implied, and not merely anti Zionist) has been from people who are Muslim.

This.
And to say it out loud is deemed Islamaphobic or racist.

AgingDisgracefullyHere · 03/11/2023 14:00

calyrex · 03/11/2023 13:52

How exactly does criticising Israel prevent the rise of antisemitism?

Supposedly it will make Israel stop deserving it 🙃

Trulywonderful · 03/11/2023 14:00

I pulled up an image and everything but the post got deleted. So I am posting the image anyway.

This is for the writer of the deleted post:

How do prevent the rise of anti Semitic feeling in the UK?
Trulywonderful · 03/11/2023 14:08

EasterIssland · 03/11/2023 13:59

Thanks OP I’ll post this link when people in other threads say that living in Israel is no safe atm as rockets are being sent by hamas and hezbollah and that people are living scared and in safe places atm. If someone from the embassy is saying Israel is more secure atm then I’m not sure what this people mean 🤔

It means that Jewish people in the UK don't feel safe to be openly Jewish. This is a problem particularly with religious Jewish people.

Whereas in Israel at least they can be openly Jewish without prejudice from from almost all the other citizens on the State.

However I reckon you already know exactly what it means judging by some of your posts on other threads

Most of us are not hear to play silly games. This conflict is very serious and peoples deaths are not something to be trying to point score about. Like wise racism is not something to deny or point score about. Please grow up!

QuickDraining · 03/11/2023 14:08

The best way to fight racism, could be to promote good relations.

If I was a Muslim, I'd naturally gravitate towards the Palestinian cause. And be very angry right now. Given the horror of the Israeli invasion. 8000 missiles and some raining down on Gaza. It has probably set any peace process back years. I almost think Israel has blown it completely. The fascists police force there are even beating up Jews that dare to question the state's actions.

Don't forget Bibi studied abroad, people do import beliefs and behaviours from other countries, UK Jews do have some sway in that regard, by cultural osmosis.

I've seen Nazis championing Israel's invasion of Gaza. When a year earlier they were likely anti-semitic. There's always arseholes and agent provocateurs that hijack rallies.

I'm sure most of the protests are full of well intentioned peace protesters. Not helped by the likes of the Mail, Schama and Riley spreading absolutes bollocks.

Sausagenbacon · 03/11/2023 14:13

If I was a Muslim, I'd naturally gravitate towards the Palestinian cause
If I was a decent human being, with half a brain cell, I'd not be such a fool.
But then, there's a lot of antisemites around in the uk. Both Muslim and the Left Wing. It's horrific

Bigminnie1 · 03/11/2023 14:17

CameleonAreFightingBack · 03/11/2023 12:50

Hmm I have to say I’m conflicted about the increase of antisemitism in the U.K.

I personally would trust whatever the Israeli ambassador said. Israel is well known to use disinformation tactics so I wouldn’t count that as reliable source.
A quick google search seem to bring that there has been an increase but number vary very widely which again makes me wonder what is been counted. (Interestingly the numbers I found were the lowest from the Jewish community sources….).

So I get the feeling if insecurity. And I believe that antisemitism should be challenged, just like Islamophobia should be too.

But I think it’s essential to step back and actually look at what’s actually going on on the ground iyswim.

Also the issue of criticising Israel is not being antisemitic just like wanting to support welfare if Palestinians doesn’t mean you support Hamas.

Bloody hell. You are proving everyone's point.
God forbid you actually believe us Jews when we say something is anti- semitic...
You obviously don't believe it but there are official statistics... oh wait, they are from the CST... obviously lies then. Ffs

Echobelly · 03/11/2023 14:18

I have no problem with protests. Large ones will inevitably have a few extreme unpleasant types but very few people at them will be antisemitic and indeed many will be Jews.

I think in dealing with Jew hatred in the Muslim community we need honesty and not defensiveness, we need to move away from 'Ohhh, but I can't say that can I because it's Islamiphobic'.I think it can be said if we put it in proportion and context. And just as people are good generally, in my opinion, at not conflating Jews and the Israeli government, we can easily recognise that Jew hating Muslims aren't representative of Muslims as a whole. This shouldn't be a war of who is the side you 'can't say that about'.

ketchup07070 · 03/11/2023 14:23

@Echobelly I think your points make perfect sense. Your suggestion for more interfaith connection sounds very helpful to me. Nothing draws people together like the common goals of peace and a better future for their children. It also seems to me that when people meet as individuals it breaks down the idea of the other as a faceless enemy or homogenous group.

etmoietmoietmoi · 03/11/2023 14:23

God they're coming for Simon "absolutes bollocks" Schama now. How utterly predictable. 😂

Redlarge · 03/11/2023 14:25

user701 · 03/11/2023 11:07

Can you not say "a Jew" please. Jewish people is fine.

There is a massive difference between anti semitism and criticism of the actions of the Israeli government.

I agree

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 03/11/2023 14:26

Honestly, I think it would help if our politicians were a bit more circumspect about expressing their unqualified support for the Israeli government/IDF in relation to the massacre of innocent Palestinian civilians. This is so difficult for people to accept that it pushes them towards more extreme positions in response... and those are exactly the conditions in which racism, prejudice and antisemitism thrive.

A more measured response to the barbaric Hamas attacks on innocent Israeli civilians would have been to say that we utterly condemn the terrorist attacks, we absolutely stand with Israel in defeating Hamas, and we will share our intelligence and special forces to help you achieve this aim, BUT we do not and cannot condone attacks on innocent Palestinians as a part of that response.

The failure to condemn Israeli attacks on innocent Palestinians makes people really angry, and anger feeds prejudice.

We are never going to get to a proper resolution in the region until we can start having a much more grown-up and nuanced conversation. Rishi Sunak standing next to Netanyahu, saying "we want you to win" while Israel is bombing the shit out of innocent Palestinian children is not going to cut it.

Redlarge · 03/11/2023 14:30

ChalkWitch · 03/11/2023 12:54

@CameleonAreFightingBack I think if Jewish people are telling you they feel unsafe, that they feel they are experiencing a rise in anti- Semitic feeling than maybe we should listen to that, regarding what Google tells us?

I can understand why they dont feel safe. They are not responsible for the IDFs' actions but will be unjustly targeted by some, and its wrong.

Redlarge · 03/11/2023 14:33

RubySunset82 · 03/11/2023 13:10

A bunch of us are going for dinner next week and one of the party is a strict Muslim. I’ve see their Instagram posts, literally 15-20 posts a day of videos, facts etc.

We have a Whatsapp group which is just basically kids stuff and they’ve commented on there how everyone was rushing to help Ukrainians but they’ve been disappointed at the lack of comment on the situation in Palestine, blaming the Israelis (saying they must have known about the 7th Oct attack and allowed it to happen). I’m dreading dinner next week!!

I can understand the upset over the differing response to Ukraine to Palestine. It must make Palestinians feel even more dehumanised.

EasterIssland · 03/11/2023 14:34

Sausagenbacon · 03/11/2023 14:13

If I was a Muslim, I'd naturally gravitate towards the Palestinian cause
If I was a decent human being, with half a brain cell, I'd not be such a fool.
But then, there's a lot of antisemites around in the uk. Both Muslim and the Left Wing. It's horrific

So you’re happy that innocent Palestinians are being killed / displaced / kicked out of their houses ?

Redlarge · 03/11/2023 14:38

Trulywonderful · 03/11/2023 14:08

It means that Jewish people in the UK don't feel safe to be openly Jewish. This is a problem particularly with religious Jewish people.

Whereas in Israel at least they can be openly Jewish without prejudice from from almost all the other citizens on the State.

However I reckon you already know exactly what it means judging by some of your posts on other threads

Most of us are not hear to play silly games. This conflict is very serious and peoples deaths are not something to be trying to point score about. Like wise racism is not something to deny or point score about. Please grow up!

Ive seen Jewish people in Isreal being physically abused by Isreali soldiers and Jewish people protesting in USA being abused by other Jewish people, i cant even bare to repeat what was said to the protesters it was one of the most disgusting comments Ive ever heard. I fear for the safety of so many. Hate is everywhere right now and I dont mean antisemitism in isolation.

Echobelly · 03/11/2023 14:49

Absolutely @MrsBennetsPoorNerves - politicians act as if they're doing us a favour by supporting Israel but it really isn't. Then again I will freely admit that if the British government were to be even vaguely critical there are those among my co religionists who would start yelling about the UK now being practically like Nazi Germany, which would also be unhelpful.

Redlarge · 03/11/2023 14:51

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 03/11/2023 14:26

Honestly, I think it would help if our politicians were a bit more circumspect about expressing their unqualified support for the Israeli government/IDF in relation to the massacre of innocent Palestinian civilians. This is so difficult for people to accept that it pushes them towards more extreme positions in response... and those are exactly the conditions in which racism, prejudice and antisemitism thrive.

A more measured response to the barbaric Hamas attacks on innocent Israeli civilians would have been to say that we utterly condemn the terrorist attacks, we absolutely stand with Israel in defeating Hamas, and we will share our intelligence and special forces to help you achieve this aim, BUT we do not and cannot condone attacks on innocent Palestinians as a part of that response.

The failure to condemn Israeli attacks on innocent Palestinians makes people really angry, and anger feeds prejudice.

We are never going to get to a proper resolution in the region until we can start having a much more grown-up and nuanced conversation. Rishi Sunak standing next to Netanyahu, saying "we want you to win" while Israel is bombing the shit out of innocent Palestinian children is not going to cut it.

Edited

I agree, i wont be supporting any extremists, but you are right the lack of action and helplessness causes visceral reactions... some causing people to go to extremes... history shows us this over and over.

Im not directly linked to either palestine or isreal, nor do i share the same religions of either and im feeling angry and really upset about it all. Im furious at Sunak and Starmer and they do not speak in my name.
As a lifelong labour voter I will not vote for them whilst he remains in the party due to his behaviour over this conflict.

Ive always been disgusted in the Tories and many of their policies but Sunak standing there cheering on a 'win' was heartbreaking.

Crabble · 03/11/2023 14:58

I am Palestinian (although born here) and while it is not anti-Semitic to criticise Israeli policy, there is no question that a) some people express this criticism in a way that is anti-Semitic and b) some people use the Palestinian cause as a vehicle for anti semitism.

There is obviously a rise in anti-Semitism in the UK and I’m not sure why people are challenging it on this thread. There have been some truly deplorable examples, including scrawling Gaza on the Wiener library. If I were Jewish I would be scared at the moment, and it’s totally unacceptable.

To change it I think we have to call it out and really focus on Jewish people and Israel not being synonymous. It is legitimate for people to have a quarrel with the Israeli govt, I think the problem is lots of people are turning this anger out towards Jewish people which is ridiculous, but I think it is happening. I also think the people attending the pro-Palestine rallies need to actively distance themselves from those who are using the rallies for anti-Semitic messages.

It’s a big concern though and I don’t think anyone really has the answer. I don’t know how you deal with such ignorance, frankly.

Auvergne63 · 03/11/2023 15:13

littleripper · 03/11/2023 12:35

@CameleonAreFightingBack you're right, I should have said islamophobic.
You are right Judaism is a race, Islam a religion. Apologies

Judaism is a religion ( I should know, I have taught RE for the last 20 years) and there only one type of race: the human race. Within it, there are a number of ethnicities ( Caucasian/ Asian/ Arab, etc). Have you ever been asked what race to you belong to? I doubt it but you will have been asked what ethnic group you are part of.

BlurredEdges · 03/11/2023 15:27

Crabble · 03/11/2023 14:58

I am Palestinian (although born here) and while it is not anti-Semitic to criticise Israeli policy, there is no question that a) some people express this criticism in a way that is anti-Semitic and b) some people use the Palestinian cause as a vehicle for anti semitism.

There is obviously a rise in anti-Semitism in the UK and I’m not sure why people are challenging it on this thread. There have been some truly deplorable examples, including scrawling Gaza on the Wiener library. If I were Jewish I would be scared at the moment, and it’s totally unacceptable.

To change it I think we have to call it out and really focus on Jewish people and Israel not being synonymous. It is legitimate for people to have a quarrel with the Israeli govt, I think the problem is lots of people are turning this anger out towards Jewish people which is ridiculous, but I think it is happening. I also think the people attending the pro-Palestine rallies need to actively distance themselves from those who are using the rallies for anti-Semitic messages.

It’s a big concern though and I don’t think anyone really has the answer. I don’t know how you deal with such ignorance, frankly.

Thank you xx

BlurredEdges · 03/11/2023 15:31

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etmoietmoietmoi · 03/11/2023 15:33

@Crabble Thank you for your post. Flowers

Re the Weiner Library - I saw a post on social media about the Director who's apparently removed the graffitied placard to preserve in their collections, which I thought was a dignified and classy touch.

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