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Conflict in the Middle East

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How do prevent the rise of anti Semitic feeling in the UK?

700 replies

mids2019 · 03/11/2023 10:09

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12705139/Jewish-ambassador-says-London-feels-safe-Israel-jihad-ideology-exploded-capitals-streets.html

Will the continuous marches in London lead to an environment where anti semitism becomes acceptable? There has been a massive rise in hate crime against Jews and surely in the UK we have a duty to prevent any platform which may lead to unjustified hatred of a group in the UK?

I feel we should feel pride we have a diverse society with a while range of ethnicities and religions but we should always act to encourage social cohesion by not allowing events that could contain messages of hate.

Although the support of the Palestinian people is absolutely reasonable in terms of free speech in a democratic society and it is reasonable to comment on the actions of the Israeli state at times the marches in a lot of major British cities have the danger of including terrorist apologists.

Jewish ambassador says London feels less safe than Israel

Tzipi Hotovely told the Daily Telegraph that the Jewish community felt fear due to 'jihad ideology' witnessed during pro-Palestinian protests in the capital city over the past month.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12705139/Jewish-ambassador-says-London-feels-safe-Israel-jihad-ideology-exploded-capitals-streets.html

OP posts:
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94
MissyB1 · 03/11/2023 13:04

AgingDisgracefullyHere · 03/11/2023 12:47

I want every Irish person to tell me straight off the bat that they deplore the Magdalene laundries.

You would be hard put to meet one that didn’t!

etmoietmoietmoi · 03/11/2023 13:06

JustAMinutePleass · 03/11/2023 13:01

I saw that post as a dark joke aimed at western journalists who demand Palestinians condemn Hamas with no mention of Israel’s actions even as they’re telling them how many family members were murdered.

No, that's not how I read it and I'm generally pretty fucking on the ball with picking up sarcasm.

But I (almost) applaud your attempts at contortion.

Trulywonderful · 03/11/2023 13:06

CameleonAreFightingBack · 03/11/2023 12:55

Well… that Imo is coming from the many Israel has pushed the idea that Israel=Jews. It’s the whole idea of Israel being the one country fir Jews, Jews are a race etc etc

So now that we are in a situation where many people strongly criticise Israel, they are putting all Jews in the same basket, regardless of their citizenship.

See also the fact there is little report in the press here about the many Israeli who disagree with the government actions and are asking for peace and negotiations. Which imo encourages people to see all Israeli and all Jews as one entity.

Iran often calls out to all Muslims about things or talks about Muslims like they are all of one nation. However only idiots hassle all Muslims around the world about it. Decent people don't expect a Muslim person on the street or at work in London to declare their views on Iran.

It doesn't matter what Israel or Iran governments say most people with a brain and good morals do actually understand the above.

JustAMinutePleass · 03/11/2023 13:08

BlurredEdges · 03/11/2023 13:01

I posted some links upthread but you won't have seen them either.

Or perhaps you think that painting stars of David on French and German jews' homes or drawing Hitler moustaches on kidnapped babies or threatening to kill Jewish students in the USA is "anti-Zionism".

You, also, can .... ...

My parents lived through an ethnic cleansing programme in East Africa thanks, that was minimised by whites because we were brown. The UK even spent time debating whether our British passports truly made us British (remember the Enoch Powell speech?. I 100% know the difference between anti-Zionism and anti-Semetism and I haven’t seen it in the UK. So I shared my experience.

RubySunset82 · 03/11/2023 13:10

A bunch of us are going for dinner next week and one of the party is a strict Muslim. I’ve see their Instagram posts, literally 15-20 posts a day of videos, facts etc.

We have a Whatsapp group which is just basically kids stuff and they’ve commented on there how everyone was rushing to help Ukrainians but they’ve been disappointed at the lack of comment on the situation in Palestine, blaming the Israelis (saying they must have known about the 7th Oct attack and allowed it to happen). I’m dreading dinner next week!!

Voteva · 03/11/2023 13:10

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Biasquia · 03/11/2023 13:11

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Echobelly · 03/11/2023 13:11

I think Hotovely is being ridiculous - as a Jew I really hate it when Jews from other countries (usually Israel or the US) take the line that Jews in the UK would be safer in Israel. Until there can be a just solution for the Palestinian people, frankly I will always feel safer in the UK.

There is an issue of defining the problem. The fact is, most British people aren't antisemitic. Most British Muslims aren't antisemitic. But I think the main source of the most virulent anti Jewish feeling, and certainly the only area of any potential existential threat, is coming from some Muslims, and it's not really the same thing as antisemitism, I have heard some decribe it as 'Jew hatred' rather than AS. I'm not worried that white British antisemites, whatever political wing they come from, are going to try to attack synagogues and Jewish schools, or beat us up - that kind of threat comes only from a tiny minority of Muslim extremists who are not representative of the whole.

I suspect there are quite a lot of British Muslims who feel at least ambivalent about Jews, largely because of Israel, and because they don't know any Jews (like most British people). And a minority are very anti-Jewish, largely because of Israel, and although they may tie that into conspiracist stuff, they're not coming from the traditional 'blood libel' sort of Christian antisemitism, and not from what I think of as a traditional British upper-class 'Oh, those ghastly Jews!' sort of antisemitic snobbery.

I think more interfaith Jewish/Muslim work is very important - as I said, adding a human face and disabusing some Muslims who may have been drawn into an idea that we are all super rich and powerful, or that we might harbour hatred against them would help to calm things down. There is no inherent hatred of Jews towards Muslims or vice versa, in fact I think Islam is quite specfically respectful towards Judaism.

crimsonfleet · 03/11/2023 13:13

JustAMinutePleass · 03/11/2023 13:01

I saw that post as a dark joke aimed at western journalists who demand Palestinians condemn Hamas with no mention of Israel’s actions even as they’re telling them how many family members were murdered.

Yes it's fucking hilarious, especially when they doubled down on it. Splitting my sides laughing here.

Decemberdaily · 03/11/2023 13:17

Justaminutepleass I’m Jewish, and I am white. If someone told me that they experienced racism because of their skin colour I wouldn’t dream of saying to them that what they experienced wasn’t racism, but was actually something else, and that I knew the difference because of my experiences as a Jew. I don’t have lived experience of racism due to skin colour so how could I possibly comment? You are doing precisely what the UK did to you to us, and minimising Jewish people’s experiences based on YOUR opinion.

OneHurtSpaggettio · 03/11/2023 13:22

OhHelloTheres · 03/11/2023 10:19

From my perspective, it's up to the organisers to make sure the people attending behave themselves. If they aren't able to do that I think they should openly say "they do not speak for me when they say XYZ", name and shame them and help police track down the offenders. Take an actual stand against it.

I think Israel should do the same with the settlers in the West Bank. This current government won't, but I hope the next one will.

This.

You always get bad eggs that want to piggy-back on something legitimate to inflict actual harm, but I’ve personally not seen any of it at marches. They are calm and have a general feeling that everyone is extremely sad, rather than that things are about to kick off.

That being said, I’m sure you have the odd bad egg, but in my experience from online forums, anyone who says something shitty against Jewish people instantly gets their arse handed to them, because contrary to what the DM will have you believe, this has nothing to do with anti-Semitic feelings for 99.9% of us.

There is also a significant Jewish presence at marches, which I’m sure the DM doesn’t talk about! There are now several Jewish-run activism groups, for Jewish people, who attend the marches.

You can see one of the groups at the recent sit-in at Liverpool Street (top right of the video):

https://twitter.com/DrLoupis/status/1719437174813102212/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1719437174813102212&currentTweetUser=DrLoupis

This is a time for all people to come together and speak up.

https://twitter.com/DrLoupis/status/1719437174813102212/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1719437174813102212&currentTweetUser=DrLoupis

BlurredEdges · 03/11/2023 13:23

JustAMinutePleass · 03/11/2023 13:08

My parents lived through an ethnic cleansing programme in East Africa thanks, that was minimised by whites because we were brown. The UK even spent time debating whether our British passports truly made us British (remember the Enoch Powell speech?. I 100% know the difference between anti-Zionism and anti-Semetism and I haven’t seen it in the UK. So I shared my experience.

And I wouldn't tell you that those experiences didn't happen to you because I, a non-Asian person from East Africa, didn't personally experience them. Because that would make me an insulting, ignorant, racist dick.

So why are you telling Jewish people that we are lying when we share our experiences of antisemitism?

Why do you think you know better than we do about our own lives?

How utterly fucking insulting and contemptible.

SoftFire · 03/11/2023 13:25

Echobelly · 03/11/2023 13:11

I think Hotovely is being ridiculous - as a Jew I really hate it when Jews from other countries (usually Israel or the US) take the line that Jews in the UK would be safer in Israel. Until there can be a just solution for the Palestinian people, frankly I will always feel safer in the UK.

There is an issue of defining the problem. The fact is, most British people aren't antisemitic. Most British Muslims aren't antisemitic. But I think the main source of the most virulent anti Jewish feeling, and certainly the only area of any potential existential threat, is coming from some Muslims, and it's not really the same thing as antisemitism, I have heard some decribe it as 'Jew hatred' rather than AS. I'm not worried that white British antisemites, whatever political wing they come from, are going to try to attack synagogues and Jewish schools, or beat us up - that kind of threat comes only from a tiny minority of Muslim extremists who are not representative of the whole.

I suspect there are quite a lot of British Muslims who feel at least ambivalent about Jews, largely because of Israel, and because they don't know any Jews (like most British people). And a minority are very anti-Jewish, largely because of Israel, and although they may tie that into conspiracist stuff, they're not coming from the traditional 'blood libel' sort of Christian antisemitism, and not from what I think of as a traditional British upper-class 'Oh, those ghastly Jews!' sort of antisemitic snobbery.

I think more interfaith Jewish/Muslim work is very important - as I said, adding a human face and disabusing some Muslims who may have been drawn into an idea that we are all super rich and powerful, or that we might harbour hatred against them would help to calm things down. There is no inherent hatred of Jews towards Muslims or vice versa, in fact I think Islam is quite specfically respectful towards Judaism.

The majority of the antisemitism I've personally experienced has come from white British people, the type who worshipped Jremy fucking Corbn. I have experienced a lot of low-level and more blatant antisemitism from these supposedly 'leftie' types.

Most of my Muslim friends (Turkish, Iranian, Kurdish, Moroccan) have been lovely and supportive.

TurkeyTrotToXmas · 03/11/2023 13:29

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 03/11/2023 12:46

It’s a bit late to prevent it. It’s already here.

This. In my experience there are plenty of white liberals who are casually antiemetic and not embarrassed by the fact. It's one of the things that surprised me the most when I first moved to England.

The current situation has probably made antisemites braver about bringing their views into the public.

Poudretteite · 03/11/2023 13:32

CameleonAreFightingBack · 03/11/2023 12:50

Hmm I have to say I’m conflicted about the increase of antisemitism in the U.K.

I personally would trust whatever the Israeli ambassador said. Israel is well known to use disinformation tactics so I wouldn’t count that as reliable source.
A quick google search seem to bring that there has been an increase but number vary very widely which again makes me wonder what is been counted. (Interestingly the numbers I found were the lowest from the Jewish community sources….).

So I get the feeling if insecurity. And I believe that antisemitism should be challenged, just like Islamophobia should be too.

But I think it’s essential to step back and actually look at what’s actually going on on the ground iyswim.

Also the issue of criticising Israel is not being antisemitic just like wanting to support welfare if Palestinians doesn’t mean you support Hamas.

The Met Police have reported that antisemitic hate crimes are up 1350% if you find that more credible than Jewish sources

PostOpOp · 03/11/2023 13:36

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Loulou599 · 03/11/2023 13:37

Antisemitism in London is not a white secular or Christian issue....

Angrymum22 · 03/11/2023 13:41

Trulywonderful · 03/11/2023 12:59

Oh for goodness sake just Google what the difference is and what being Jewish means

I can't even be bothered to explain this to people anymore

Please accept my apology. I’ve spent the last hour educating myself.

I have lost my faith over the years. I have no time for any god that allows such violence carried out in their name.

etmoietmoietmoi · 03/11/2023 13:42

Amazing, we're now at the stage of accusing people trying to discuss antisemitism in the UK as 'paid for'. Absolutely fucking textbook.

TheBabylonian · 03/11/2023 13:47

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Blinkityblonk · 03/11/2023 13:49

I don't know how we prevent it at a societal level but I feel very strongly about preventing it on a personal level. I've reached out to my Jewish friends and neighbours and chatted to them about it, followed their lead (one set is very anti-Israeli gov't, one is just frightened, others are more on the rights of Israel side), I won't tolerate anti-semitism if I hear it and I've spoken to my children about how frightening it must be to be hated for your ethnicity/genetics and how this might play out in the future (they are also mixed ethnicity themselves). My colleagues are worried but I also said I'd go with them to the police/see action taken if there are any issues, I don't think there will be but I want them to know we see the problem and will be prepared to support them. They are not Israel and shouldn't be demonized as such.

happyl · 03/11/2023 13:50

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this is absolutely despicable. Shocking. And yet at the same time, unsurprising.
How dare you accuse people who want to discuss antisemitism of being plants or
journalists, paid to make pro Israel comments. Absolutely unbelievable.

calyrex · 03/11/2023 13:52

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How do we know you're not being paid?

calyrex · 03/11/2023 13:52

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How exactly does criticising Israel prevent the rise of antisemitism?

Trulywonderful · 03/11/2023 13:54

Angrymum22 · 03/11/2023 13:41

Please accept my apology. I’ve spent the last hour educating myself.

I have lost my faith over the years. I have no time for any god that allows such violence carried out in their name.

I am not a religious myself but am Jewish

I kind of feel the same way as you. If people think G-d is telling them to kill people or that they are superior, then why would you want to believe in that type of G-d.

However I respect everyone's right to believe in what they want and worship how they please so long as they are peaceful and not prejudice against others.

I also like studing different religions and their history as a non religious person. It gives me a better understanding of people raised in different faiths. This is very useful in my Job.

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