Is anyone's mental health affected by simply reading about the horrors of October 7th

[mids2019]

I keep reading details in the Daily Mail and I know journalists have been given a video of the atrocities but it is absolutely harrowing. I understand large broadcasters can not go into detail as the events were to shocking for a general audience and in reality I think even written descriptions are worse than any thing I have read or watched.

Has anyone felt some outlet to express disgust is helpful (as some sort of therapy)?

For the record, I do “condemn” what Hamas did, which, from the evidence that has been verified by third parties (such as the human rights watch), comprised of them killing civilians. However, there is a huge amount that is circulating that is not properly evidenced

So unless a third party saw it, you won't believe it? If only the Israelis had thought to embed people from HRW etc in with the police and first responders or ask them to provide forensic scientists so they could confirm the autopsy results were correct. How remiss of them.

No, Beer said that he told his account based on what Moskowitz told him. He was not there.

Moskowitz said that there were burns on the body, that was already in a body bag when he found the poor baby — i.e. he did not find the baby in an oven, he found it in a body bag — that he thought meant the baby could have been baked in the oven. Beer then spreads it as fact.

Even the Telegraph haven’t reported on what Beer has said! Let alone the BBC.

Likewise, no article from either the Times of Israel or Haaretz regarding the Moskowitz/Beer claims.

No credible journalists would report on it.

Please can you link to the cut off hands/feet? I haven’t heard of that.

@Milkandhoneybees no I wasn't I was talking about Asher Moskowitz.
I really hope it wasn't true.
The only thing I think about the 'putting the baby in the oven for safekeeping' theory is that they are unlikely to have then switched it on (the babies parents) and the first responder said the baby had element burns.

I hate the fact I have just typed that. I really really hope it's refuted. The other option is just too horrible for me to keep thinking about.

It's like top trumps of torture.

@Milkandhoneybees

https://x.com/BenjaminSales/status/1719531771736252566?s=20

Warning - disturbing

[Post edited by MNHQ - extremely distressing content]

I could not sleep after seeing/ reading about the 7th October attacks. Like girls set on fire alive, babies baked in the oven, children shot, people beheaded alive, hundreds of bodies at the festival etc. I know I should have not watched or read it but without knowing it I would have not understood what Hamas really is. I also seen video of Palestinian women and children killed by Hamas while trying to escape the area being bombed. And a video where one of their leaders saying "bomb shelters are for Hamas, UN and Israel should worry women and children". They truly are not human and should be eliminated; I feel very sad I have not seen any anti-Hamas posters at the pro-Palestinian protests in the West. Hamas are pure evil.

Please can you link to the cut off hands/feet? I haven’t heard of that.

Paramedic Linor Atias gave an interview, link here.

https://twitter.com/ishivamkahar/status/1719664074567614509?t=LcaJAHQNsLiSSiS6YNkEJQ&s=19

A rescuer called Moshe Malayan is quoted in the press as talking about a family who'd been mutilated before murder including the little girl's foot chopped off. I haven't yet found his own account, only quotes. I'll see if there's an interview with him.

I hate the fact I have just typed that. I really really hope it's refuted. The other option is just too horrible for me to keep thinking about.

I hope it not true, it's the worst thing I've ever heard if it is. The rest of it is bad enough.

No credible news website has reported it, so I really don’t think it’s true.

I also haven’t seen anything about it from the IDF or Israeli officials.

I really do hope that you’re okay.

@Milkandhoneybees I am not sure they would though. Because it's not something you would want to get wrong is it?

Thank you I appreciate that.

Yes exactly, but people on here were posting it/talking about it as if it were fact.

I think it’s important that we try to always look for credible sources, I’ve seen things that are total rubbish or exaggerated from both the pro-Israel Twitter and pro-Palestine Twitter.

Something like 10,000,0000 people shared the baby in the oven story.

There is body-cam footage of innocent people getting killed in and around their homes, which is already awful enough. In a kibbutz of all places!

What I find odd about Linor Attias is that she gave an interview prior to this, where she went into a lot of detail about the 7th October attacks, the audio of which you can find here:

https://allaboutchangepodcast.com/podcast-episode/linor-attias-an-israeli-first-responder-on-the-front-lines-of-massacre-in-israel/

She then gives an interview to CNN, 2/3 weeks later, and tells this story about a dismembered child who bled to death, but surely if this were true then she would have:

A) mentioned it during her first interview; and
B) there would be photographic evidence of it that would have been shown/published by a trusted news website, or at least the IDF or the Israeli government, but there’s nothing.

I’ve become quite skeptical since the baked baby story and the story about beheaded children/babies that was said and then later revoked by the Israeli govt, the IDF and even Joe Biden, who claimed he had seen photos of beheaded babies but the White House then put out a statement that he hadn’t!

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/12/middleeast/israel-hamas-beheading-claims-intl/index.html

Israel are refusing to launch an internal investigation into it and we’re yet to see the evidence, and there absolutely would be evidence of the crime scene.

I tried Googling the name Moshe Malayan but it didn’t return any results.

Well it's quite obvious you'lk find an excuse not believe anything an Israeli says. Do you think she had time to take photos when she was trying to save a child's life? Why would she lie? She's a professional paramedic ffs.

Nothing is good enough for you is it? (Don't bother replying, it's rhetorical.)

I'm mentally affected by the scenes coming out of Gaza day in day out for weeks. The brave journalists who are risking their lives to show the world the brutal killings of innocent civilians. In the past two days I have seen a father holding half of his child's body because from the torso down he was blown up, the video of them collecting human flesh and parts from a bombing of a hospital in hope they may be able to identify victims. This is only a small part of what is going on in Gaza, they have aid, water and electricity withheld by Israel and civilian life lost stands at 9000 (5000 children) in no other country would you find this acceptable but the Palestinians have been forgotten about for a long time before this.

No, that’s not true, there are plenty of Israelis who have given interesting and nuanced views, both online and offline. They’re incredibly important voices, how could they not be? Not believing all Israelis would be completely moronic.

I’m also not going to pretend that there aren’t extremists who exist in Israel, and a strong far-right, which is why I’m skeptical. I am also skeptical of the opposing side, and I have had sources shared with me in my personal life from both sides that I have researched and then pushed back on/refuted.

I think that truth matters.

RE: your question, I don’t know why she’d lie, because like I said, I think that what happened on October 7 is already nightmarish without this. I don’t think humans are built to see that much death in one day. I don’t doubt that she suffered trauma. Anything else regarding motive is just me guessing, which I don’t feel comfortable trying to do.

I don’t even see her as a bad person if this is a lie, weirdly. Because like I said, she must be traumatised.

Whether those stories are true or not, what I find dreadful is that, after October 7th I can well believe them to be true. And I can’t believe I just typed that- that I could believe any human being could behave in such a brutal and depraved manner.

Humans have always been brutal. Have a look at history.

It’s so extreme and barbaric

@Milkandhoneybees I am more suspicious of a terrorist organisation that seem to use everything as a well prepped photo opportunity and I think the west is naively going along with it.

Please can you elaborate on this? I’m not sure what you mean.

Are you saying that you don’t believe the photos coming out of Gaza?

An Israeli mumsnetter said this on another thread, and I think she’s spot on:

“People with jobs, security, equal rights and their basic needs met are far less likely to turn into terrorists. We could learn a lot from how other nations have managed to live in a multicultural society and reduce or even eliminate domestic terrorism. They didn’t get to a place of relative peace and security through gradual or continued dehumanisation of an ethnicity.”

As long as the far-right have their hand in Israeli politics, their brutality towards the Palestinians will always ensure their own lack of security.

Netanyahu will always protect himself, but puts economic goals over and above security and peace.

His pre-7/10 speech at the UN is proof of that:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/netanyahu-brandishes-map-of-israel-that-includes-west-bank-and-gaza-at-un-speech/

The protests yesterday gave me some hope that the Israeli’s will boot him, but I wonder if someone even further to the right will replace him.

Oh right, well that’s ok then. 🙄

Some interesting comments here eg

“People with jobs, security, equal rights and their basic needs met are far less likely to turn into terrorists. We could learn a lot from how other nations have managed to live in a multicultural society and reduce or even eliminate domestic terrorism. They didn’t get to a place of relative peace and security through gradual or continued dehumanisation of an ethnicity.”

Several other Middle Eastern countries have from the outside the image of* *a place of relative peace. They are indeed multicultural societies yet their peace depends on the strict infringement of personal liberties of some of their "citizens". These same countries are the ones who do not want to be involved directly in war. They like their lives too much as they are enjoying their prosperity.

You can also apply that quote in reverse - why are Hamas not doing those things for their people? Oh yes there is the equivalent of that link you gave

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it"