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Conflict in the Middle East
Original poster

"But Israel gave them prime waterfront land!". A life in Gaza thread.

318 replies

feralunderclass · 30/10/2023 15:44

"But Israel gave them prime waterfront land, and they still wouldn't accept a two state solution".

A poster said this on another thread and I literally can't get this out of my head. It's probably the best (and worst) case of gaslighting hasbara I have seen on any of the threads.

Just incase anyone has the notion that Gazans were reclining on their sunloungers, admiring the sea views from their luxury penthouse apartments, this is a thread to discuss life in Gaza pre 7/10.

Some facts:

Gaza fact sheet

Humanitarian situation in the Gaza Strip Fast facts - OCHA factsheet

Fast Facts The population of Gaza is 1.6 million, with over 50% under 18. 38% of Gazans live in poverty. 26% of the Gazan workforce, including 38% of youths, is unemployed. The average wage declined by over 20% in the past six years.

https://www.un.org/unispal/humanitarian-situation-in-the-gaza-strip-fast-facts-ocha-factsheet/#

OP posts:
Thread gallery
62
eardefender · 31/10/2023 08:11

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

flowofstate · 31/10/2023 08:13

I agree verifiable links should be provided, otherwise comments such as above bring the thread down to the level of the Daily Mail comments section and are no help to the debate. Truth matters.

Original poster
feralunderclass · 31/10/2023 08:13

Good morning and thanks for all of the links.
Gaza has the potential to be really beautiful, but unfortunately the open air prison aspect, the illegal blockades, calorific rationing, sieges and regular spates of bombing ruin the chances 😔. Makes total sense about what a pp said about it being a strategical move of Israel to move out. There was no way they were going to leave the prime waterfront land to people they believe are no more than animals. Those accounts from ex IDF soldiers are heartbreaking.

If anything good comes from this, the scales are falling from the eyes of the people as to what is happening to the Palestinian people. It's devastating that it took a genocide to do so though 😭. Ironically the only outward support that Israel is getting in my town is the EDL type (who would have been waving a nazi flag previously) who are using Israeli flags to demonstrate their Islamophobia. Nobody takes any notice of them anyway.

OP posts:
NmeChngeFail · 31/10/2023 08:14

You can't argue with a narcissistic and they have the play book.

Anytime you make good point, it will go quiet for a few hours on the thread and then they will come back with whatever new rubbish they have come up with and you have to shut it down again.

Its exhausting.

Also MN is closing pro-palestinians accounts without and reason, no racism or antisemitism. Just shutting down accounts left, right and centre.

Original poster
feralunderclass · 31/10/2023 08:15

Yes absolutely please, can we keep this thread to verifiable, reputable links only. Daily Mail not included 😬

OP posts:
eardefender · 31/10/2023 08:15

MrsTerryPratchett · 31/10/2023 02:14

I managed 15 minutes. It's like Kafka meets Sisyphus. I will get through it.

Just awful how people are spoken to. And that was made a couple of decades ago now.

Show quote history

Was it balanced though? Did it delve at all into the terrorism that made the checkpoints necessary. The bus bombings, the pizzerias?
does having a checkpoint excuse in any way the sub human barbarism that we saw on 7th October.

Desertrose2023 · 31/10/2023 08:18

Thank you @feralunderclass for this thread. About time people started to counteract the misinformation being spread by the pro- Israeli propaganda machine about the misery of life in Gaza being the fault of Gazans.

as this is a parenting site I would highly recommend the film ‘Born in Gaza” on Netflix which documents the impact on the children of Gaza of the last Israeli aggression in 2014.

Born in Gaza (Official Trailer)

BORN IN GAZA follows ten children telling their daily life under the bombs during the military offensive that devastated the Gaza Strip in July and August 2014.

https://youtu.be/wKYysYySMEE?si=iBoAtP2-RIeyg0z9

Original poster
feralunderclass · 31/10/2023 08:18

NmeChngeFail · 31/10/2023 08:14

You can't argue with a narcissistic and they have the play book.

Anytime you make good point, it will go quiet for a few hours on the thread and then they will come back with whatever new rubbish they have come up with and you have to shut it down again.

Its exhausting.

Also MN is closing pro-palestinians accounts without and reason, no racism or antisemitism. Just shutting down accounts left, right and centre.

Yes I'm on my final warning apparently. I have been guilty of crimes that I most definitely haven't committed, and no evidence was provided when I asked 🤔. I want to use this thread to amplify the situation in Gaza and OPT in general, so please no bun fighting 💐

OP posts:
eardefender · 31/10/2023 08:19

feralunderclass · 31/10/2023 08:13

Good morning and thanks for all of the links.
Gaza has the potential to be really beautiful, but unfortunately the open air prison aspect, the illegal blockades, calorific rationing, sieges and regular spates of bombing ruin the chances 😔. Makes total sense about what a pp said about it being a strategical move of Israel to move out. There was no way they were going to leave the prime waterfront land to people they believe are no more than animals. Those accounts from ex IDF soldiers are heartbreaking.

If anything good comes from this, the scales are falling from the eyes of the people as to what is happening to the Palestinian people. It's devastating that it took a genocide to do so though 😭. Ironically the only outward support that Israel is getting in my town is the EDL type (who would have been waving a nazi flag previously) who are using Israeli flags to demonstrate their Islamophobia. Nobody takes any notice of them anyway.

Do you acknowledge in any small way that hamas may be a reason why Gaza is a shithole. Do you lay any blame for that at the door of the rich and thieving hamas. Do you acknowledge and have any sympathy at all for the victims of October 7th. I find your post unbelievably one sided and unbalanced.

Efacsen · 31/10/2023 08:20

feralunderclass · 31/10/2023 08:15

Yes absolutely please, can we keep this thread to verifiable, reputable links only. Daily Mail not included 😬

And maybe not let @eardefender disrupt and derail this interesting thread

Not 5 minutes ago they were doing the same thing on another thread

eardefender · 31/10/2023 08:24

flowofstate · 31/10/2023 08:13

I agree verifiable links should be provided, otherwise comments such as above bring the thread down to the level of the Daily Mail comments section and are no help to the debate. Truth matters.

Guys we only need links when hamas terrorists are being criticised, when it’s that other lot, you know who…..don’t bother posting links just criticise Carte Blanche because, well we know why…….wink.

NmeChngeFail · 31/10/2023 08:24

Stop making people apologise for October 7th and stop making people prove their humanity by having to condemn hamas before they make a statement.

One of the descriptions of antisemitism is making Jews condemn the actions of Israel, well thats what people are doing to anyone who dares to speak out for Palestine. They are being asked to condemn Hamas constantly.

The issues of Palestine happened well before October 7th. People are allowed to discuss this without being forced to prove that they are not terrorist sympathisers.

Do you condemn Israel everytine you make a post supporting something that that did?

I very much doubt it.

NmeChngeFail · 31/10/2023 08:25

eardefender · 31/10/2023 08:24

Guys we only need links when hamas terrorists are being criticised, when it’s that other lot, you know who…..don’t bother posting links just criticise Carte Blanche because, well we know why…….wink.

Show quote history

You accuse people of what you do yourself. I'm pretty sure thats in a book or quote somewhere...

eardefender · 31/10/2023 08:29

Efacsen · 31/10/2023 08:20

And maybe not let @eardefender disrupt and derail this interesting thread

Not 5 minutes ago they were doing the same thing on another thread

Show quote history

I am off this thread now because it’s an echo chamber. It is so interesting that you have said I am derailing this thread, yes I have tried to derail it from apologising for hamas, which is despicable. If that is the rail that the thread is on then yes it should be derailed. I do not agree with your anti Jew stance. You will find that many people don’t.
having a point of view and posting on multiple threads is the whole point of mumsnet. It’s actually allowed, even when you don’t agree with that persons opinion.
Best of luck with the whole no debate thing.

Reallifelurker · 31/10/2023 08:43

And maybe not let @eardefender disrupt and derail this interesting thread

Yes. IGNORE THEM.

Original poster
feralunderclass · 31/10/2023 09:11

eardefender · 31/10/2023 08:19

Do you acknowledge in any small way that hamas may be a reason why Gaza is a shithole. Do you lay any blame for that at the door of the rich and thieving hamas. Do you acknowledge and have any sympathy at all for the victims of October 7th. I find your post unbelievably one sided and unbalanced.

Show quote history

Which post are you referring to? Of course I have sympathy for the victims of 7/11, I care about ALL human rights and have said that across all threads. This is a thread about the people of Gaza though, it really wouldn't seem necessary to me to shoehorn in my sympathy for 7/11 victims, or can you not discuss Palestinians without prefacing it with acknowledgement that Israelis are suffering? Please have a bit of respect.
Gaza has been a mess because it is under blockade, siege, regular bomb attacks, sewage spewed into it's seas just to mention a few reasons. No free movement out nor free movement in for goods.
I don't know much about Hamas if I'm honest but from what I saw myself before they took over governance, the situation was very dire. It is absolutely not the case that it was a flourishing oasis in the desert until Israel left.

OP posts:
ketchup07070 · 31/10/2023 11:32

MrsTerryPratchett · 31/10/2023 02:14

I managed 15 minutes. It's like Kafka meets Sisyphus. I will get through it.

Just awful how people are spoken to. And that was made a couple of decades ago now.

Show quote history

I re-watched it recently. I found it eerie that even back then a soldier states 'we are the humans, they are the animals,' in the light of recent political rhetoric. You are so right in your analogy! I can't imagine living under such capricious bureaucracy and deliberate cruelty. I have to assume that with the camera on, they are all on their best behaviour, which makes me wonder how it is when nobody is filming.

ketchup07070 · 31/10/2023 11:41

eardefender · 31/10/2023 08:15

Was it balanced though? Did it delve at all into the terrorism that made the checkpoints necessary. The bus bombings, the pizzerias?
does having a checkpoint excuse in any way the sub human barbarism that we saw on 7th October.

Show quote history

It's pure documenting. The film maker does not interview anyone,, or impose his opinion at all. I think it does reveal the humanity of all concerned actually. There are brief moments when the politics are dropped and the soldiers and Palestinians meet on real human terms.

Ohlalalalala · 31/10/2023 11:52

ketchup07070 · 31/10/2023 11:32

I re-watched it recently. I found it eerie that even back then a soldier states 'we are the humans, they are the animals,' in the light of recent political rhetoric. You are so right in your analogy! I can't imagine living under such capricious bureaucracy and deliberate cruelty. I have to assume that with the camera on, they are all on their best behaviour, which makes me wonder how it is when nobody is filming.

Show quote history

"I have to assume that with the camera on, they are all on their best behaviour, which makes me wonder how it is when nobody is filming."

My thoughts exactly! I shiver to think about it.

queenofarles · 31/10/2023 12:29

Let’s put Gaza o the side for a sec,

The majority of people have zero basic knowledge about the region,
so many factions , Geopolitical conflicts , Sectarian Violence all of that in a relatively small area , the whole region :Syria, Lebanon , Palestine have seen unrest and conflicts for decades . I’ve been to Lebanon and Syria in a time both< who were always enemies > were enjoying some sort of prosperity and stability , it just it took the assassination of Rafiq Harriri to throw the whole region back into turmoil , and it hasn’t recovered since.
and the Palestinian issue was always persistent,
to solve the Palestinian Israeli conflict is not as easy as saying well they refused so many solutions.
many Palestinians lands were illegally taken from them , so many displaced refuges in Lebanon , Jordan, Egypt, and then there is the Palestinian Diaspora, how could you solve that ? They literally have no place to return to.

Original poster
feralunderclass · 31/10/2023 12:46

queenofarles · 31/10/2023 12:29

Let’s put Gaza o the side for a sec,

The majority of people have zero basic knowledge about the region,
so many factions , Geopolitical conflicts , Sectarian Violence all of that in a relatively small area , the whole region :Syria, Lebanon , Palestine have seen unrest and conflicts for decades . I’ve been to Lebanon and Syria in a time both< who were always enemies > were enjoying some sort of prosperity and stability , it just it took the assassination of Rafiq Harriri to throw the whole region back into turmoil , and it hasn’t recovered since.
and the Palestinian issue was always persistent,
to solve the Palestinian Israeli conflict is not as easy as saying well they refused so many solutions.
many Palestinians lands were illegally taken from them , so many displaced refuges in Lebanon , Jordan, Egypt, and then there is the Palestinian Diaspora, how could you solve that ? They literally have no place to return to.

It's not going to be solved overnight, if ever. I get so sick of hearing that "they had a chance of a two state solution and they turned it down" without realizing what the offer was. Why Israel and the rest of the world think that the Palestinians should be happy with a few crumbs thrown at them is fair is beyond me.
Anyway, back to Gaza.

OP posts:
TutuDesi · 31/10/2023 13:27

Reallifelurker · 31/10/2023 07:24

Googling the incident re the greenhouses is depressing. Never mind Hamas a lot of pro-Israelis say the Palestinians destroyed them by looting them. Didn’t loot them when they belonged to the Israelis but the minute their backs were turned…
Oh aren’t these Palestinians silly? no wonder they couldn’t make the desert bloom. They could have had a thriving economy.

Or maybe not..

https://www.inquirer.com/philly/columnists/trudy_rubin/gaza-israel-crisis-jerusalem-united-states-trump-20180518.html?outputType=amp

Yes the language in Wikipedia that I posted is biased.

When the Jewish settlers dismantled and took lock, stock and barrel 4,000 greenhouses of the 8,000 they were supposed to leave behind it’s written down as “dismantled” and not theft or looting- no it is excused because the settlers being evicted by Israel had “despaired of getting compensation” for the greenhouses - even though the compensation was still paid to them for the greenhouses they took with them that they were supposed to leave intact and in place. So they got to keep half of the greenhouses they’d sold.

But after handover, when a few Palestinians take bits and bobs from 800 of the 4,000 greenhouses left, damaging them. It’s written up as “looted” and “destroyed.” Even though the program head got the 800 fully repaired and up and running in a few months and it didn’t affect the growing or harvest of produce. Although the once promised & paid for 8,000 greenhouses was now only 4,000.

This bit of Palestinian vandalism is not only exaggerated into looting and total destruction of all 8,000 greenhouses by Hamas, it is then propagandised as the cause for the failure of the entire project. But in fact it was the Israeli blockade closing off the gates to Israel so that Gaza could not export their harvest that killed the industry. The vegetables and fruit rotted in Gaza due to the Israeli blockade, the investors lost all their money and with Israel basically not caring there was no point trying to grow and export fruit and vegetables from those greenhouses. Israel basically decided if their settlers couldn’t grow for export in Gaza, then no one can.