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Conflict in the Middle East
Original poster

"But Israel gave them prime waterfront land!". A life in Gaza thread.

318 replies

feralunderclass · 30/10/2023 15:44

"But Israel gave them prime waterfront land, and they still wouldn't accept a two state solution".

A poster said this on another thread and I literally can't get this out of my head. It's probably the best (and worst) case of gaslighting hasbara I have seen on any of the threads.

Just incase anyone has the notion that Gazans were reclining on their sunloungers, admiring the sea views from their luxury penthouse apartments, this is a thread to discuss life in Gaza pre 7/10.

Some facts:

Gaza fact sheet

Humanitarian situation in the Gaza Strip Fast facts - OCHA factsheet

Fast Facts The population of Gaza is 1.6 million, with over 50% under 18. 38% of Gazans live in poverty. 26% of the Gazan workforce, including 38% of youths, is unemployed. The average wage declined by over 20% in the past six years.

https://www.un.org/unispal/humanitarian-situation-in-the-gaza-strip-fast-facts-ocha-factsheet/#

OP posts:
Thread gallery
62
flufferknutter · 31/10/2023 21:48

Chaitales · 31/10/2023 21:34

I don't know on which post people keep repeating that Jewish people "bought" land legally to make their "homes"
But this video, in Israelis own words....

https://twitter.com/Trickyjabs/status/1718887609211011208

That's awful. Laughing about killing them as well. Horrible.

mids2019 · 31/10/2023 22:08

What is the solution after this war ends? If we have a two state solution where should the borders be drawn?.are the current borders sufficient.

I can't see Israel conceding territory (and even increasing a security margin) so we would have to establish a Palestinian state within the current geographical constraints. It would also be important to establish Israel's security obviously.

There was talk on the radio of group of Arab states taking on the governance of Gaza at least in the short term until a more moderate government can take hold but that is going to be a challenge diplomatically.

If Israel continues to not provide Gaza with utilities such as fuel or electricity I would think it would become more incumbent on Egypt to support Gaza by exporting through the Rafah crossing.

ketchup07070 · 31/10/2023 22:19

@mids2019 What about 67 borders? Not ideal for either party, but seems like the best option. Immediate governance could be by UN oversight, which is under discussion, but holding an election would be a priority.
No idea whether Egypt can provide fuel and electricity.

flufferknutter · 31/10/2023 22:33

mids2019 · 31/10/2023 22:08

What is the solution after this war ends? If we have a two state solution where should the borders be drawn?.are the current borders sufficient.

I can't see Israel conceding territory (and even increasing a security margin) so we would have to establish a Palestinian state within the current geographical constraints. It would also be important to establish Israel's security obviously.

There was talk on the radio of group of Arab states taking on the governance of Gaza at least in the short term until a more moderate government can take hold but that is going to be a challenge diplomatically.

If Israel continues to not provide Gaza with utilities such as fuel or electricity I would think it would become more incumbent on Egypt to support Gaza by exporting through the Rafah crossing.

The war won't end until all Palestinians are cleared from Israel. There will be no Gaza strip and there will be no Palestinians living in the West Bank. We know where this is going.

Salumadamni · 31/10/2023 23:52

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Fallenangelofthenorth · 01/11/2023 08:34

SarahMused · 30/10/2023 18:40

Most Gazans live in abject poverty because it suits Hamas to keep them that way so the aid money keeps pouring in. Hamas use this money to build their terror infrastructure and to live comfortable lives themselves. If you want to see what Gaza looks like for Hamas supporters follow Imshin on X . They have been chronicling the luxury lifestyles of rich Gazans for several years. There are shopping malls, hotels, beach clubs, luxury restaurants and huge villas for those with money. It wasn’t a concentration camp by any means.

That's a real eye opener. A real tale of two cities.

usernamealreadytaken · 01/11/2023 08:40

TutuDesi · 31/10/2023 17:25

In the early 2000s, Hamas certainly used to make rockets with water pipes and rocket candy (exact same fuel used on model rockets), but these rockets have a range of only 2.5km at most, and have been used to hit the town of Sederot which is only 850m from Gaza. There is no shortage of pipes because Israel tended to destroy the Gazan power/water/sewage infrastructure with every bombing campaign or incursion.

But by around 2009 their rockets were hitting Ashkeleon which is 8km away. No way it is possible to have a home made rocket using a water pipe and home made rocket candy have that kind of range. Nor can these rockets have any guidance system whatsoever- but Hamas’ rockets do now have guidance albeit not the sophisticated type Israel have.

This is why I think the “we make the rockets”- complete with pony show of a few guys digging in the sand is now a cover story for weapons smuggling from elsewhere to Hamas as they’ve spotted them using Russian made rockets (Russia sells weapons all over so not saying Russia is sending them rockets) .

”A senior Hamas official based in Lebanon gave details of the group’s weapons manufacturing in an edited interview with Russia Today’s Arabic-news channel RT Arabic published on their website on Sunday.
“We have local factories for everything, for rockets with ranges of 250 km, for 160 km, 80km, and 10 km. We have factories for mortars and their shells. … We have factories for Kalashnikovs (rifles) and their bullets. We’re manufacturing the bullets with permission from the Russians. We’re building it in Gaza,” Ali Baraka, head of Hamas National Relations Abroad, told the outlet.
But former US officials say there is little question the massive stockpile of weapons used in Saturday’s attack was acquired and assembled with help from Iran.
“Hamas didn’t build the guidance system and those missiles in Gaza,” said retired Gen. Frank McKenzie, the former commander of US Central Command. “They got them from somewhere. And the technology assistance to put it together certainly came from Iran – where else would it have come from?”

Show quote history

Hamas has plenty of rockets, food, water and electricity while their citizens don't. If you don't see that the Gazan government is repressing its own people far more than any other player, then you have a special kind of view of the world.

Efacsen · 01/11/2023 08:41

Fallenangelofthenorth · 01/11/2023 08:34

That's a real eye opener. A real tale of two cities.

Show quote history

It wasn’t a concentration camp by any means only for a small number of Hamas elite - concentration camp-style for everyone else

It's all gone now - blown away week 2 of the war along with the University

Hippyhippybake · 01/11/2023 09:00

I haven't read all this thread but has someone pointed out that the relentless and constant attacks on Israel emanating from Gaza explain why Israel has felt the need to maintain blockades and checkpoints and control utilities. Combined with the fact that Hamas has never wavered from its commitment to destroy the State of Israel and murder all Jews.

The Gaza strip is not dissimilar in size to a number of highly successful countries / territories many of which lack any natural advantages. None of these has devoted themselves to destroying their neighbour rather they have focussed in improving the lives of their own population.

Reallifelurker · 01/11/2023 09:09

Not sure Imshin is one of those reputable sources we’re after.
It goes a bit further than “Hamas have nicked all the cash”

Imshin
@imshin
·
Oct 14
·
The "open air prison" was a lie.
The "humanitarian crisis" was a lie.
The "no water" was a lie.
The "blockade" was a lie.
Hamas lied and you believed them, again and again and again.
They are still lying and you are still believing them.
#TheRealImage #TheRealStory…
Show more

https://twitter.com/imshin/status/1713201203721507287

gratedbluecheese · 01/11/2023 09:11

Hippyhippybake · 01/11/2023 09:00

I haven't read all this thread but has someone pointed out that the relentless and constant attacks on Israel emanating from Gaza explain why Israel has felt the need to maintain blockades and checkpoints and control utilities. Combined with the fact that Hamas has never wavered from its commitment to destroy the State of Israel and murder all Jews.

The Gaza strip is not dissimilar in size to a number of highly successful countries / territories many of which lack any natural advantages. None of these has devoted themselves to destroying their neighbour rather they have focussed in improving the lives of their own population.

The irony of your post in the face of Israel's action towards Palestinian people, when Israel is clearly "destroying their own neighbour" by continuously bombing, taking land and homes from Palestinians the West Bank, in allocated Palestinian territory, demonizing, prosecuting and imprisoning innocent children for decades, depriving Palestinians of normal trade, and the basic human rights of food and water, bombing refugee camps and hospitals and schools.

And yes before you go on about it robot fashion I condemn Hamas.

gratedbluecheese · 01/11/2023 09:15

Reallifelurker · 01/11/2023 09:09

Not sure Imshin is one of those reputable sources we’re after.
It goes a bit further than “Hamas have nicked all the cash”

Imshin
@imshin
·
Oct 14
·
The "open air prison" was a lie.
The "humanitarian crisis" was a lie.
The "no water" was a lie.
The "blockade" was a lie.
Hamas lied and you believed them, again and again and again.
They are still lying and you are still believing them.
#TheRealImage #TheRealStory…
Show more

yes, gaslighting us and denying it counter to all the respectable sources that are clearly documenting Israeli govt's horrific spree for us all to see with our own eyes, not to mention Human Rights Watch, United Nations, Amnesty International, reputable news sources that so many on here try to smear daily in pursuit of feebly trying to justify Israel's disgusting behaviour, for which nothing is justification.

And yes before anyone goes on about it robot fashion I condemn Hamas.

Hippyhippybake · 01/11/2023 09:15

And what is the current attack in response to? The worst slaughter of Jews since the Holocaust. Israel's response was entirely predictable to anyone aged over 3.

So why did Hamas do it?

gratedbluecheese · 01/11/2023 09:18

Hippyhippybake · 01/11/2023 09:15

And what is the current attack in response to? The worst slaughter of Jews since the Holocaust. Israel's response was entirely predictable to anyone aged over 3.

So why did Hamas do it?

maybe Israeli govgt helping create Hamas and fund Hamas for many years wasn't a great idea. I'm not blaming Israeli govt here for the actions of Hamas but in the face of what's happening you have to wonder why they helped finance and create it in the first place.

https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/

And yes before anyone goes on about it robot fashion I condemn Hamas.

Original poster
feralunderclass · 01/11/2023 09:26

usernamealreadytaken · 01/11/2023 08:40

Hamas has plenty of rockets, food, water and electricity while their citizens don't. If you don't see that the Gazan government is repressing its own people far more than any other player, then you have a special kind of view of the world.

Show quote history

This is horribly minimising, as well as factually incorrect. There are posters on here who will still claim "But Hamas!" even when Israel declares they've killed them all. It serves as a deflective shield to minimize the horrific treatment of Palestinians by the Israeli government, and also rampant settlers trying to take the law into their own hands. This oppression is happening across the OPT, as recorded by the UN, OHCRC and many Israeli and foreign human rights organizations.

OP posts:
Hippyhippybake · 01/11/2023 09:31

This is not a dispute about land. Hamas and the Palestinian Authority want to eradicate the State of Israel and murder all Jews.

gratedbluecheese · 01/11/2023 09:32

"But Hamas" is used as justification for any heinous action the Israeli govt wants to take, all the documented war crimes going against the Geneva convention, thousands of innocent families children bombed, safe routes bombed, collective punishment of millions, deprivation of food and water and aid to 2.2million people... 60+ percent of the population homeless now without protection... no escape routes.... the list goes on.

They can do whatever the fuck they like and say "but Hamas" after and pretend to justify it, even when it goes counter to every international legal rule of war.

No wonder even countries with a notoriously bad human rights record like Chile, Bolivia et al are withdrawing their diplomats in recognition of how bad it is. The irony, but also, makes you think, doesn't it.

Caveat: I do not condone Hamas.

starfleet · 01/11/2023 09:33

@Hippyhippybake and vice versa........

gratedbluecheese · 01/11/2023 09:34

Hippyhippybake · 01/11/2023 09:31

This is not a dispute about land. Hamas and the Palestinian Authority want to eradicate the State of Israel and murder all Jews.

It's looking increasingly like Israeli govt want to murder all Gazans, let's face it.

Original poster
feralunderclass · 01/11/2023 09:36

Hippyhippybake · 01/11/2023 09:31

This is not a dispute about land. Hamas and the Palestinian Authority want to eradicate the State of Israel and murder all Jews.

Who is eradicating who?

OP posts:
gratedbluecheese · 01/11/2023 09:36

People still trotting out the same old "but Hamas" in the face of the illegal war crimes and slaughter by the Israeli govt have some serious inward looking to do.

And no I do not condone Hamas.