If you are pro Israel when is enough killing enough?

[TakeMe2Insanity]

Plenty of people have repeated “1400 Israeli’s were killed on 7/10”, but when is actually enough? The count is above 5000 in Gaza alone. Seriously when is enough enough?

I agree it doesn’t make sense idf attacking ambulances. Unfortunately, that’s the reality. They’re targeting ambulances and doctors

Previously when children or civilians have been killed in the cross fire then the IDF have said so. This time despite Layyan saying the tank is right next to them before it got cut off we still hear nothing. And their dead bodies were left in a undignified manner for 12 days.
They were only discovered after the IDF moved away from that area and people could go back to check

It's an inflammatory op, I might as well say 'if you are pro hamas, what did you think would happen when you declared war on Israel?'

It's a war zone, it's chaos, people are trying to kill you and you try to kill them first. It is the closest thing to hell on earth.

What would stop it? Hamas surrender themselves and the hostages/ bodies.

Apparently Netanyahu came to power on the back of a leader who signed a peace deal with the plo and was assassinated by a lone gunman, his people were devastated, in the wake of that islamic extremists took suicide bombs to 3 Israeli buses.....resistance? How many people on both sides need to die.

Years ago my best friend told her son that if someone racially attacked him he should hit back three times as hard to deter them from doing it again. It's not advice she would give now.

For some Israelis the memories of racial hate and pogroms are too fresh and hamas have knowingly woken them up again.
There will never be peace with extremists in power...who should be governing Gaza?

The IDF have a long history of years of attacking ambulances and medical staff. It's certainly not something new.

I don't know @Parkingt111 . Maybe they're not sure themselves what happened. Gunfire in a warzone is hard to trace. Perhaps they aren't willing to put their name behind a soldier's report, given the media attention.

As I said before, I wonder whether the burnt out ambulance would be easier to figure out, since they must have a record of all missiles they fired. That's how they were able to refute the hospital bombing.

I do wish they would say what they know. They have been quite open about at least some things they've done - eg killing their own hostages with white flags. So I don't think we could automatically assume they're lying - although obviously also not automatically assume they're telling the truth.

Hamas seem much more aware of media impact than the IDF. Maybe because for Hamas the media reaction is pretty much the point, since that's how they are trying to achieve their aims. Whereas Israel are trying to achieve military aims rather than influence international opinion. They do need the international opinion as well though.

@statsfun I respect your opinion that you would prefer to wait for further clarification. In this instance the IDF haven't actually said that they are going to give this.
The burnt out ambulance probably would as you say. And yes, I know that they aren't seeking public approval but it's still quite strange for the IDF to have radio silence on such a severe allegation that is being reported on most western media.
I suppose what I am trying to say is, it is against the norm from the responses seen previously in regards to high profile cases from the IDF.

I don't agree that they have always been open. Like the instance I posted above of the Palestinian man recorded being killed with a white flag. They claimed the footage was doctored initially

The last two pages of this thread has gone back and forwards on who was responsible for the murder of Hind, her family and the red Cross ambulance staff. This has been reported widely in mainstream media, none of those reports suggest there is an alternative view that it could be Hamas. On here is the only place that this seems to be suggested. Could those posters point out where else their view is being reported? As has been pointed out Israel have not even suggested that at this point so it is quite confusing why some posters are and I'm interested to know where they have read this as a possible explanation for the tragedy.

Not read it anywhere, @Dulra - I just try to apply critical thinking reading the MSM.

If you read the BBC article carefully, you'll see that they never say that it was the IDF who killed Hind.

• They quote the Red Crescent, who accuse the ID of deliberately targeting them. The BBC make no comment on whether they think the accusation is true.
• They quote Hind's mother, who blames Netanyahu and Biden.
• they describe Hind's desperate phone call, mentioning the tank next to her then gun fire and the call cut off
• They describe what was found: the car riddled with bullets (not tank fire), the burnt out ambulance
• They make a general statement about ambulances being protected, and that the IDF have accused Hamas of using them to transport fighters and weapons.

The point is that it isn't clear what happened.

It's because there's a long history of ambulance personnel and medical staff being terrorists. That also is certainly not something new.

So they target any independently whether they’re terrorists or not ? Just in case ? How many times will idf have to apologise for killing / torturing the wrong person?

Because it’s harrowing Durla
a scared small child trapped in a car with her dead family , on the phone begging for someone to come and take her and when help arrives is shot dead along with the paramedics by IDF is something no one wants to admit actually happened , ofcourse it will get discredited and played down.

They scarcely ever show evidence of this though.

Again, I don't remember saying that's what they do? It's almost like you are trying to put words in my mouth

A few days ago, I posted a link to a report from 20 years ago which gave details of ambulance staff doubling up as terrorists and the ambulances being used for terrorist activity. So it's been happening for at least two decades.

This is also from 20 years ago, it seems even some Israelis have been protesting against the attacks on ambulances and health care for over 20 years
https://www.btselem.org/press_releases/20020314

Any evidence from the last 5 years?

Or better still the last 5 months?

Do you have a problem with comprehension?

Or don't you like reasonable posts, just those that fit your mindset?

Until there is a debrief no-one know what happened.

You could spin evidence from 20 years ago the other way and say it happened 2 decades ago but there's no evidence it's happening now. In other words evidence from 20 years ago, so pre Hamas coming to power, proves nothing of relevance to what is happening now.

Would hostages saying they were transported in ambulances be enough evidence for you? Some had to play dead on stretchers.

No I just don't think this is the place for IDF fan fiction.

@Ladyjanegreysketle I must have missed the part where the IDF have said they are going to debrief
Unless you know otherwise which hasn't been reported yet

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/israel-hamas-war-live-gaza-latest-news-blinken-nrfl3xbw0

If you knew anything about military operations you would know that after any mission there is a debrief.
That's why they wear bodycams.
Because it is an ongoing operation and troops are still 'in the field' it may take some time for this to happen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debriefing

Is this verified by someone else apart from Israel or are we going to believe everything Israel says ?

That's very much disputed - plenty of evidence to the reverse -it was an ambulance trying to evacuate patients which had to turn back because the road was blocked
Suspect that when it tried to return to the hospital it was not following route agreed by IDF and therefore targetted