For people who say I stand with Israel

[sprinklesprinkle]

What does that mean to you? Especially for Jewish people who are happy to answer.

I know what Free Palestine means - it has always meant freedom for Palestinians, peace, basic human rights such as water, the right to life essentially.

I Stand with Israel - what exactly does this mean?

I am genuinely not being 'goady" to use a MN word but I want to learn & understand. I know many will say not to have Israelis attacked at a festival or for the hostages to be released but what is the long term goal for those that support what the Israeli government is doing. What do you want for Palestinians?

If only people like you could have a seat at the table

Maybe because we’ve been there before, maybe because there are many people who remember the not so distant past when another group identified Jews as being a problem, when that group started torturing and killing Jewish men women and children. Europe learned the lesson then about the cost of appeasement.

Never again will we let that happen. The fact that anti semitism is increasing here is disgusting, absolutely disgusting. Every child should learn over and over the history of anti semitism- the whole history. They should learn about how it manifests today.

Standing up for the state of Israel the Jews reclaimed and the Jewish people are part of the repartitions humanity owes to the Jewish people.

If ancient historical context (ie original state of Israel) is more important than more recent occupations (ie Muslim/Arab majority), which you must think, if ancient claim is the basis for it being the 'homeland' what about those whist home it was before Israel? Its not like Israel was the first to control the area. They conquered it from others, just like others eventually conquered it from them.

Honestly though, I was just reading a series of Twitter threads where a reasonably well-known celebrity had said that they condemn both the terrorist violence and violence against Palestinian civilians (which is really the only ethical standpoint, tbh) — and there were scores and scores of posts from twentysomethings about how this celebrity was “both-sidesing genocide”, “a genocide supporter”, “for evil”, “for white supremacy”, “a while supremacist colonialist genocidal Karen” - and bloody hell, it just went on and on and on. And I know some of those people from a fandom connection, and they are pretty much exclusively young North American and British girls who call themselves feminist, queer and non-binary.

And I’ve honestly never seen so much unhinged vitriol and so little actual knowledge of the situation (including frequent posting of inaccurate memes and all sorts of fact-free nonsense.) Apparently to say you don’t think women should be brutally raped and murdered under any circumstances, on either side, is the same as “all lives matter”. Nothing less than saying all Israelis deserve a violent death for the crime of “settler colonialism white supremacy” will do as the “correct” stance. And here I am not kidding, this is what they are quite literally arguing.

So my question is: what on Earth are we going to do with a generation of people who believe that all moral stances are this falsely easy; who make these claims whilst being so woefully underinformed; and who genuinely believe that some people — especially some women — deserve violent rape and murder because they are on the “wrong” ideological side? How do we bring this generation, as a collective, back to valuing democratic humanism and collective peace processes? What has gone so wrong with them morally that they happily justify bloody murderous vengeance, as long as it’s for an ideological cause they like? And why are they so fucking stupid that they call themselves “queer feminists” while shilling for violent men’s rights to murder, violate and subjugate women and children for a political-religious cause? Do they think that ordinary women and children in Gaza are well-served by the men of Hamas?

I don’t even know where to begin with that🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️.

At this stage all I can suggest is that there is a minimum age of 40 to use the internet!

There seems to be a whole generation of people who completely lack research skills, any critical thinking capabilities and so devoid of identity that they cling on to any religion without a God which comes their way.

We need a massive adjustment to secondary education. We need to crack down on the left wing extremist nature that runs through schools and esp university, to do that the funding of courses needs a complete overhaul as content is being shaped to satisfy political rather than academic agendas in order to secure funding.

But that’s off topic, except explaining some of the downright idiotic comments I’ve seen tonight.

The barbaric actions of Hamas or IDF can be justified. Phosphorus bombing of innocent civilians cannot be justified. Stealing land and homes of Palestinians cannot be justified. Illegally occupying land cannot be justified

You think tying a young child to its mother and burning them alive can be justified?

It’s hard to remember, in these days where the fashion is for simplistic narratives of “colonialism”, that many peoples did not have lands by “conquest” at all. Added to that, the entire point is that the Jewish people were condemned to be oppressed and exiled from Judea and an idea of a homeland. Jews have been constantly purged from nearly every global nation for millennia!

I mean - newsflash I know! - but that is only what the entire Old Testament is about — and also the New Testament. (I’m secular myself; but just from general knowledge, has it not even occurred to people to wonder even once why it’s the Roman Governor, Pontius Pilate, who crucifies Jesus?)

Thank you, I just didn’t know where to start with this post!!

I agree with @Namechangeagain2023 explanation.

I have made a lot of enemies on other threads because they all assume I'm some right wing extremist, but actually, I disagree with Israeli settlers. They should all be made to leave. NOT Jerusalem but the rest of the West Bank for sure. Jerusalem needs to be some kind of neutral city where everyone is allowed. They already have different neighbourhoods - just stick to them and stop trying to kill each other.

But to the poster who repeatedly keeps saying that Israel clearly wants the land because they need it due to the ever-expanding population - absolute BS. There's plenty of land in Israel. Stop inventing fictional scenarios. Israel can, and in my opinion should, develop the rest of the Negev dessert if they need more housing.

So yes, Israel is by no means innocent. Settlers need to leave and stop trying to take more land, West Bank need to stop sending in shooters / suicide bombers etc.

Gaza is a different story entirely. Hamas and their supporters really do need to be eliminated. There is zero chance of lasting peace otherwise. Just another ticking timebomb, inevitably followed by a literal bomb. The hostages need to be returned so the water can be turned back on until Gaza can rebuild itself and also build their own water treatment plant so they're not reliant on the people they hate so much.

Anyway, long story short - I stand with Israel in the sense that I want it to, well, stay standing. I hope for there one day to be a proper, official, Palestinian state and that everyone can live in peace side by side. Probably not going to happen in my lifetime though. Specially not when you have people saying the land needs to be split 50-50. So what, the solution is to displace Israelis so the Palestinians aren't displaced? In that situation, everyone is displaced 🤦🏻‍♀️ it's just not realistic. Where would the newly displaced Israelis go? Bearing in mind a lot of the land was legally bought by Jews. It's not as simple as "give them back their land", no matter what a lot of posters seem to believe. My family can't exactly go back to Iraq or Poland and kick people out of their homes so they have somewhere to live.

It's shit all around.

Maybe you need to read the UN report. The Commission also reviewed Israel’s expropriation and exploitation of land and natural resources, and its restrictive urban planning and zoning policies in the West Bank.
Land is often confiscated for military purposes but then used for settlement construction, the report found.
Palestinians were already there. They are definitely illegally occupying the land.

For everyone talking about the land being stolen, this is untrue. There are records to show that Palestine sold that land to Israel. It was marshland and unusable. Now that Israel have actually made it into something, where things have been built and jobs created etc, Palestine have been fighting for it back.

I don't understand what this mean? Israel are a terrorist state, they commit war crimes and crimes against humanity. There is nothing 'Western' or civilised about that?

The original state of Israel was created by conquest right?

The modern creation of the state of Israel was recreating a bronze age state. People lived there and called it their home and country before Israel, and after Israel? What is so important any that tiny snapshot in time, to the exclusion of all the others? I mean, if Rome said it should have England back because they had it 2000 years ago we'd think it was nuts...

What is wrong with you? Jeez no one apart from you is stupid enough to believe this! They’ve stole homes, farms, good land. Children are working from the age of 10 and probably below to help their families. They have seen family members blown to bits. It takes minutes to find this information.

I often think how can anyone have missed all these years of oppression then someone rocks up repeating lies like this!

Really not hard to research. The evidence is plain to see. The phosphorus bombing can’t be denied. Or just read the UN report

The barbaric actions of Hamas or IDF can be justified.

Well — and there it is.

@Rubbishagain a very apt username. I’m going to ignore you now. You are morally bankrupt and simply wrong, to hold human life cheaper than land ownership. Most people living on the Earth in history haven’t “owned land” ever in their lives, but most of them would balk at rape and murder. Your moral compass is broken; you think you’re righteous but you are a shill for money and capital at the expense of humanity. I hope at some point you grow up and rethink this truly horrible privileging of land squabbles that dominates your worldview. For one thing - you aren’t for peace or innocent Palestinians either. You’re part of the problem.

I've studied it to degree level not just some quick Google searches, so I know their history

I think you need to do a bit of historical reading. And look up the Bronze Age Levant, for a start.

Maybe read a history book.

I shouldn’t engage, but:

Palestinians were already there. They are definitely illegally occupying the land.

If you want to get technical, “Palestine” was originally a Classical European corruption-word meaning the land of the Philistines. Who the modern Palestinians are definitely not descended from. The kingdoms of Israel and Judea long predated any Arab claims to the area, and existed well before Islam and Islamic imperialism. Nevertheless, the area was a land populated by Semitic peoples who many current Israelis and Palestinians can trace a common ancestry back to. But to be clear: “Palestine” is an artificial idea, just as much as, indeed more so, than modern Israel. And just as “colonialist” an idea as any other modern nation state in the region.

You have not. Absolutely no human could see the state of Gaza and not understand their desperation. You could not see the families and children speak about what they have lost and what they have seen and be so clueless. It’s not Google searches. It’s years of seeing it happen and not being in the least bit surprised something like this happened.

As your posts indicate you think that rape, burning alive of children. Torture and beheadings are “justified” I’m not interested in speaking further with you. At this point nothing you say is worth listening to if thats your perspective.

Oh okay, I didn't realise you knew my life. You're wrong on so many levels