For people who say I stand with Israel

[sprinklesprinkle]

What does that mean to you? Especially for Jewish people who are happy to answer.

I know what Free Palestine means - it has always meant freedom for Palestinians, peace, basic human rights such as water, the right to life essentially.

I Stand with Israel - what exactly does this mean?

I am genuinely not being 'goady" to use a MN word but I want to learn & understand. I know many will say not to have Israelis attacked at a festival or for the hostages to be released but what is the long term goal for those that support what the Israeli government is doing. What do you want for Palestinians?

They have to focus on peace talks with palestinians that do not support Hamas. They have to spend money on building a Palestinian state without Hamas, would be cheaper than trying to fight future wars with their shrinking productive tax base.

They don't have that many good options but then they squandered the past 20 years on violent coexistence with Hamas. Netanyahu encouraged Hamas over fatah so he could be mr security, have Hamas throw a few rockets over, some fighting every few years- that was viewed as mowing the lawn and ensured he stayed in power while keeping Israeli civilian casualties at the minimum. What I suppose he didn't anticipate is that hamas would go this far and slaughter people a la ISIS.

What would happen with a ground invasion - tens of thousands of Israeli soldiers would die. Hamas knew Israel would invade, they have booby trapped the whole place. They are doing this to trigger Israel to enter into a war with Iran. They are doing this so that more Jews would be killed.

I agree that peace talks would be wonderful but The Palestinian Authority don't want to get involved.
Which Palestinians do you know who are willing to chat?
Yes Israelis will die, Yes I think Iran would like that.

But what power would those Palestinians have? If they brokered a peace what would happen to Hamas? What would those Palestinians want?

it’s clear Iran are funding this. Israel are basically fighting Iran (to the north and to the west.) brokering a peace with non- Hamas supporting Palestinians is unlikely to go anywhere and likely to make those Palestinians targets of Hamas too.

Gaza needs to rid itself of Hamas et al then broker peace with a two state solution

How do you get rid of Hamas. Hamas has ruled Gaza since 2006. You can't have a business unless you are a Hamas member in Gaza, its embedded in the social fabric of Gazan life. Unless you literally kill 2 million gazans, then yes maybe you have a shot.

It is not like ISIS. ISIS was a militia group, they executed people for not praying at the right time, ordinary syrians feared and reviled them. Even after years of hamas rules, Gaza still has churches and Anglican hospitals

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-19/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/is-hamas-really-like-isis-experts-explain/0000018b-493f-d1fd-a59f-edbfbe090000

'As scholars, we have to try to understand their way of thinking, and there are differences,” between the two organizations, Weismann says. “ISIS originated in the Salafi stream [of Islam]. It’s a movement that’s first and foremost theological, and it sees anyone who doesn’t believe in Islam as an infidel. Hamas members, too, are infidels in the Salafi view, because they have negotiated with Israel. ISIS doesn’t do anything like that. Hamas tried to be inclusive of all of Gaza’s population. Secular residents included. In contrast, ISIS would murder any Muslim who didn’t pray at the correct time. You can’t just say, ISIS slaughtered people and so did Hamas, so they’re the same. That’s very superficial.”

Other experts agree that the fundamental strategies of Hamas and ISIS are different. “ISIS wins hearts and minds via the might of the weapon,” explains Dr. Netanel Flamer of Bar-Ilan University’s Middle Eastern studies department. “Hamas recruits the population in other ways. One of the first things that [Hamas founder] Sheikh Yassin did, for example, was to build soccer fields.”

I wish i knew what the clear answer was and if I did, I probably would get a Nobel Peace Prize. However, not knowing what to do doesn't mean you don't know what not to do.

Exactly that is my point- what is the point of making peace deals with Palestinians who don’t support Hamas?

This.

I am Christian but support Israel, the only real democracy in that part of the world. If I had a choice of living in Saudia Arabia or Iran or Israel Israel is by far the better country on almost every level. There is one Jewish nation on the planet and many muslim ones. The Hamas terrorists need to be stopped and most of us in the West agree with that.

As a Jew, states built on ethnoreligious grounds in that part of the world lead to a lot of bloodshed.. Israel's democracy is in peril due to the judicial reform.. I support Israel's right to exist in the same way I support Singapore or Ukraine or Moldova's right to exist because it is a sovereign state.

Xenia, if you think that you pay lots of taxes, let me give you a stat the top 10% of Israeli taxpayers pay 92% of the taxes in Israel. The average taxpayer in that decile only earns the equivalent of £45k so not rich people. It is a small country, if there is a brain drain of the talented and high earning, you only need tens of thousands to leave for it to be a disaster. This is a crisis in waiting (bombs, theocratic state and high tax burden not a great combination). You are far better off in the secular UK where people live together in peace, there is more even distribution of income, no bombs and no large proportion of the population excluded from the productive workforce.