To think it’s turning into genocide in real time part 2

[Everythingnotsavedwillbelost73]

First thread here but it’s full
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4918938-to-think-its-turning-into-genocide-in-real-time?page=1

Medical Aid to Palestine posted this thread on facebook describing the scenes in Gaza as being like the last days of humanity with one of their staff members having to search through piles of bodies to find his 13 year old niece https://www.facebook.com/100064712829372/posts/pfbid028yxpzimtA3apA6CSs8dEhJBd16rYUQR6QjFidEpwRCZzPVYoeJezX8nDrtZP2UZRl/?app=fbl

The main stream press aren’t really addressing the horror of what is happening (bar maybe Channel 4 news and Al Jazeera) - it’s a sanitised version.

As I said in the original thread, there has been absolute horror on both sides but the Israeli government are inflicting collective punishment on the people of Gaza, which is a war crime under international law.

I still feel we are watching genocide in real time.

[Ostryga]

It absolutely is. There’s a viral video on tiktok of Israel bombing with white phosphorous. They’ve bombed a mosque.

Anyone still defending this needs to take a very long hard look at themselves and ask them why they are supporting genocide.

[Everythingnotsavedwillbelost73]

George Monbiot said this this morning;
Just as Hamas solved nothing with its atrocities against Israelis, the Israeli government solves nothing with its horrific mass punishment of Palestinians. There is never a justification for crimes against civilians

Its out of control- it’s over 1500 kids now that have been killed in Gaza. It’s disgusting.

[MaggieBsBoat]

Of course it is.
and it’s what Netanyahu has wanted an excuse for for years.
They are a toxic, fascistic police state and it makes me weep that at least two of my friends are supporting these actions.

[Everythingnotsavedwillbelost73]

I read this about a Gaza based journalist & his family - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67180401

[muggart]

It's horrific but not an unsurprising approach for Israel to take, given it's track record. None of us can be surprised.

[DrinkingMyWaterMindingMyBiz]

It absolutely is genocide and the mainstream media are playing us all like fiddles. It makes me sick to my stomach that a government that represents us (whether we voted them in ourselves or not) are not only sitting complicit but actively supporting these horrific war crimes.

I can’t stop thinking about all of those children in Gaza, those who have been killed as well as those who are still living there, and how terrifying it must be. War alone is bad enough, but attacking civilians whilst holding them hostage is torture. Even those who do manage to survive this are going to be scarred for life with these memories. It’s too awful to bear thinking about.

[Sippingmytea]

I’m absolutely disgusted with the mainstream media. What I’m watching real time on social media is being completely ignored. This morning I heard Israel has now started bombing the West Bank and Syria. Enough now. This is genocide.

[Everythingnotsavedwillbelost73]

This is awful too - 1750 children have now been killed https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/22/children-in-gaza-developing-severe-trauma-after-16-days-of-bombing

[filka]

The numbers are horrific but really a bit too low to have reached genocide levels yet. But the ethnic cleansing is well under way. Israel has stated that it's long-term aim is not to occupy Gaza but their actions show that they don't want anyone else to either.

[Everythingnotsavedwillbelost73]

@filka is there a particular figure that we have to hit before we can call it genocide?

[filka]

The UN Convention definition is "...genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; "

At the moment we "only" have around 5,000 deaths from a population of 2 million. But the situation could change very quickly, for example if the lack of food or water started to cause deaths in the 10,000+ range.

For recent full-blown genocides you should consider Darfur, Sudan - 400,000 deaths and 2.5 million displaced, or Rwanda - 800,000 deaths, 10% of the population.

By contrast, ethnic cleansing isn't fully defined by the UN as it hasn't been officially classified as a crime🤔. But demanding that the entire population relocate into 50% of the land while you systematically destroy the other half does meet the definition from one report " “… a purposeful policy designed by one ethnic or religious group to remove by violent and terror-inspiring means the civilian population of another ethnic or religious group from certain geographic areas.”"

Don't get me wrong, I'm as unhappy about what is going on as anyone, and consider that the situation is probably already ethnic cleansing and could easily head towards real genocide. But in my view it isn't there yet.

[Everythingnotsavedwillbelost73]

@filka
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part

I mean- isn’t this exactly what is happening in Gaza? Cut off food, water, medicine to 2 million people and then bomb the shit out of them.

i don’t think it matters what the numbers are- it’s the intention!

[DrinkingMyWaterMindingMyBiz]

I started another thread in the ‘Conflict in the Middle East’ section with a template to send to your local MPs, imploring them to do something to stop this. The thread is here: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/conflict-in-the-middle-east/4925751-contact-your-local-mp?reply=130145165

[Everythingnotsavedwillbelost73]

@DrinkingMyWaterMindingMyBiz thanks for that! I have already written to my MP but it’s good to have that!

[Everythingnotsavedwillbelost73]

This is genuinely an absolute humanitarian catastrophe- I’ve lost the words to describe how appalling it is https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/25/red-cross-witnesses-utter-chaos-at-gaza-hospitals-as-supplies-run-critically-low

[Heelenahandbasket]

@Ostryga

It absolutely is. There’s a viral video on tiktok of Israel bombing with white phosphorous. They’ve bombed a mosque.

Anyone still defending this needs to take a very long hard look at themselves and ask them why they are supporting genocide.

That’s not true

[Everythingnotsavedwillbelost73]

@Heelenahandbasket which part? Channel 4 showed footage of Israel using white phosphorus

[Heelenahandbasket]

It’s a war. Not a genocide. Funny that actual racial attacks on Jewish people are “justified” or “not to be seen in a vacuum” etc yet a war by Israel against vile terrorists is “genocide” and “war crimes” etc.

There is no evidence of any war crimes committed by Israel. They don’t even control all the borders to Gaza. So stop lying

[Everythingnotsavedwillbelost73]

Oh PLEASE @Heelenahandbasket they are using collective punishment on the people of Gaza. 6000 people have been killed including 2000 children. Israel have flattened entire regions of Gaza. Please spare me your Israeli propaganda.

[Ostryga]

@Heelenahandbasket

It’s a war. Not a genocide. Funny that actual racial attacks on Jewish people are “justified” or “not to be seen in a vacuum” etc yet a war by Israel against vile terrorists is “genocide” and “war crimes” etc.

There is no evidence of any war crimes committed by Israel. They don’t even control all the borders to Gaza. So stop lying

This might be the most delusional thing I’ve ever seen on here.

[Heelenahandbasket]

@Everythingnotsavedwillbelost73

@Heelenahandbasket which part? Channel 4 showed footage of Israel using white phosphorus

Was it the footage they showed that turned out to be from Syria?

I would note that channel 4 publicized lies that israel bombed a hospital. The hospital was actually never even bombed although rockets fired from Gaza were videoed exploding in the car park. Still channel 4 and the bbc refuses to admit it was propaganda and reports Hamas lies as fact.

[Everythingnotsavedwillbelost73]

@Ostryga This might be the most delusional thing I’ve ever seen on here

Quite. Its scary. It’s actually how genocide happens too.

[Ostryga]

For fucks sake 😂 you’re just a raging islamaphobe

It is not anti-Semitic to support Palestine.

[Heelenahandbasket]

@Everythingnotsavedwillbelost73

Oh PLEASE @Heelenahandbasket they are using collective punishment on the people of Gaza. 6000 people have been killed including 2000 children. Israel have flattened entire regions of Gaza. Please spare me your Israeli propaganda.

the only casualty figures come from a terrorist organization called Hamas. It’s a war started by Hamas. There is no obligation for any country at war to provide its enemy with water or electricity to enable them to attack them.

stop with the Hamas propaganda. Hamas are vile people who are deeply racist and sexist and homophobic as well as extremely violent.