Please restore my faith in humanity..Israel?

[Bakensmile]

I don’t view Hamas as humans, they are pure evil.

However I am astonished at the atrocities Israel are committing and getting away with, I want to believe they are good and just defending themselves but it’s getting harder to do that. I have some questions if anyone could answer, I would be grateful. Before this gets deleted as that’s probably inevitable as mumsnet doesn’t like anyone questioning Israel.

Over 1,000 children have been killed since this all began. Why are Palestinian children’s lives not viewed as important as Israelis?

To the people who say Israel need to destroy Hamas. If Hamas had underground tunnels within Israel. Underneath Israeli homes, hospitals. Would you support the dropping of bombs and view the killing of innocent Israeli civilians as collateral damage and an unavoidable tragedy? Or do you think Israel, who has arguably the most efficient intelligence in the world, would find another way to obliterate them?

The UK and US wrongfully invaded Iraq killing thousands of civilians, some members of the army were raping women and in one case burnt a child alive. If at that time, Iraq had decided to bomb the UK killing thousands of civilians as a way to defend themselves, would you also support that?

The most recent tragedy last night at the hospital. Israel immediately took responsibility and were quite proud they had ‘killed terrorists’. They then deleted this tweet and backtracked saying it was Hamas, releasing audio between two members as ‘proof’.

How can they intercept phone calls between terrorists but failed to see the initial attack and massacre of innocent israelis coming? How is this considered as proof? The two people talking could be anyone.

Why would they claim responsibility if it was nothing to do with them?

What are the chances that a rocket misfires and just happens to land on a hospital that was supposed to be keeping hundreds of Palestinians safe?

@LolaSmiles I honestly don’t know how many more times and ways it can be explained it is not antisemitic to criticize the actions of the Israeli government, the IDF and the treatment of the Palestinians. What is antisemitic is the use of antisemitic tropes, language, misinformation, historical revisionism, Holocaust inversion, “ I’m not antisemitic, I’m just anti-Zionist!” and tokenizing Jews to do it, which is on full display on every single I/P thread.
I know it isn't antisemitic to criticise the Israeli government!

My question was in response to another poster being accused of antisemitism for suggesting that people with their own pro-IDF angles might be getting threads removed.

Given it's reasonable on any other topic to talk about lobby groups, pressure groups, use of influence behind the scenes I don't see why this topic should be any different.

I've largely lurked on threads about this conflict, but there's been a lot of very informative posts from a range of posters and then threads disappear.

I agree there are a range of posters, whose debating really lays down great information. They are also respectful of each other's points. Imo, the minimising of Hamas' actions and laying blame at Israel is what's getting threads shut down. There's so much misinformation and speculation. It's not a question of taking sides but I really don't know what some expected Israel to do after those monsters went on their rampage. Before any ody says nobody is condoning Hamas, just have a think about that.

Let's not forget that Hamas hit the child development center at the Barzilai hospital in Ashkelon on October 8th.

https://english.alarabiya.net/News/middle-east/2023/10/11/Rocket-from-Gaza-hits-hospital-in-Ashkelon-in-southern-Israel-

I agree there are a range of posters, whose debating really lays down great information. They are also respectful of each other's points. Imo, the minimising of Hamas' actions and laying blame at Israel is what's getting threads shut down. There's so much misinformation and speculation. It's not a question of taking sides but I really don't know what some expected Israel to do after those monsters went on their rampage. Before any ody says nobody is condoning Hamas, just have a think about that
Thank you for explaining. I've gone back to find several threads with informative posters on them and they've gone. As someone who lurks on these threads it would be more helpful for the antisemitic and islamlphobic posts to be deleted rather than whole threads where people have taken the time and energy to share.

There's no question that there's some emotive mud slinging on some of the threads. I can't help but question how much of it is exacerbated by not entirely truthful press announcements and misinformation which is only corrected, if at all, once the headline has done it's job.

Totally agree with you on the press situation, Lola. Whether there are reasons for certain info only been available/accessible, I don't know. Its certainly a time when only accurate information should be posted. You would think that would go without saying.

🤣🤣🤣

The important but...which you omit is that Palestinians are killed with impunity by Israelis. As a policy military occupation isn't working and is endangering lives on both sides, but disproportionately endangering Palestinians. Sorry, I don't write this a rebuke, just an addition to your comment.

Although I’m 100% against what Israel is committing against the gazan civilians, it wouldn’t surprise me if it were Hamas or the Palestinian Jihad. They’re willing to kill their own that’s for sure although they probably didn’t intend to this time.

It’s a shame though that this will be used by Pro Israel (Netahanyu and IDF, NOT the Israeli public) posters using this as yet ANOTHER vile excuse to keep torturing the Palestinian civilians.

@daytriptovulcan

Unfortunately that context is unwelcome. How the Palestinians have been persecuted, subjugated and killed for many years. The fact that Israel has the power to cut off their water supply says it all.

I think we collectively need to lobby the government so that the people of Gaza have access to water, food and electricity. It is so inhumane to deprive them of these things. Innocent civilians and children without water sounds horrific. I'm really shocked that anyone can support this. What did those children ever do?

https://www.map.org.uk/campaigns/protect-palestinians-against-atrocities-in-gaza

Please email your MP

I think it’s understandable that the level of threat the people of Israel constantly face that one incident has somehow slipped through the net. Let’s not be ridiculous and somehow pretend the atrocities carried out by Hamas are in any way attributable to Israel. It was an act of evil, unjustifiable terrorism

Done.

They do, or at least did, have access to electricity.

Nearly 50% of their supply is solar powered and not reliant on Israel.

I don't think our culture can comprehend the level of religious zealotry in Israel and Palestine. Some people on both sides think they kill their opponents for the glory of God and will go to heaven as a martyr to be celebrated for all eternity if they die in the process.

'Why can't they be nice to each other' doesn't even begin to cover it.

Inaccurate
Maybe you should read this

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/17/crisis-gaza-why-food-water-power-running-out

Maybe they could’ve you know, returned the hostages?

Don't put words in my mouth that I did not say.
I 100% condemn the actions of killing innocent civilians regardless of race or religion

To state that indeed this was an intelligence failure by the Israeli authorities as many Israelis have said themselves does not equate to attributing the horrific actions of Hamas to Israel

@Maatandosiris

Four out of five Jewish Israelis believe the government and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu are to blame for the mass infiltration of Hamas terrorists into Israel and the massacre that followed, a new Dialog Center poll released on Thursday found.

I think your information is out of date.

This article was written by journalists living in Gaza.

https://electronicintifada.net/content/solar-energy-lights-gaza/37421

@Maatandosiris the reference for the above.
https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-767880

@Willyoujustbequiet I hardly think its out of date
The guardian published it yesterday
Tuesday 17th of October 2023

@Maatandosiris there are also protests taking place today in Tel Aviv calling on Netanyahu to resign. I don't think these protestors share your sentiment that this failure of duty towards the Israeli citizens is 'understandable'

🤣🤣🤣🤣 yeah Israel isn’t an apartheid state.

I’ll just leave this here. View at your leisure:

https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution

Sorry @snygghygge my response was actually to @PinkTonic !