As a mother...

[Ducksinthebath]

"As a mother..." seems to be how about how just about every opinion expressed to me about the Middle East situation seems to start at the moment.

Same for XL Bully issues, the recent party conferences and every blooming thought that comes out someone's head about the environment.

I feel like I'm in an echo chamber with Andrea Leadsom and it's irritating.

'What we actually get a lot of is "I was childfree until I had children at 32" when what the poster means is "I was waiting for the right man/right job/right house/right amount of money/I hadn't considered it" which is not the same thing at all but it gets treated as the same thing and they then use us to tell us we are doing it wrong, our opinions are wrong, we are selfish cold hearted but simultaneously aggressive and angry women who just need to calm down and realise that we will never be fully formed human beings.'

Very well said. Every parent had a period of their life before they had kids, but it's absolutely not the same as knowing, for whatever reason, that you won't be having children ever. The arrogance of barging in here and arguing with genuinely childfree posters about how we all need to get over ourselves 🤦🏻‍♂️

Some of that renowned motherly compassion for an old man at risk of losing his flat: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/property/4939417-what-does-a-62-year-old-man-on-just-above-minimum-wage-do-when-served-with-section-21-eviction-notice-and-cannot-afford-anything-on-the-current-rental-market?postsby=SingleMum11 The last two posts.

Ageism and disablism in one.

I saw a humdinger on IG the other day. Someone I know (a mother) shared a post that went something like this - ' when you become a mother, you are mother to every child in the world. It doesn't matter whether that child is from Israel or from Gaza'

Overwrought much?

I wonder if people who say these kinds of things really believe them and if so if they're just naive or actually dim.

'I wonder if people who say these kinds of things really believe them and if so if they're just naive or actually dim'

I know, it's hard to tell. I was surprised at her because she's not usually a smug mum type but she has, shall we say, strong feelings about this situation

As a mother going on right now
Just needed to vent
Ahhhh
I am clearly unable to feel sadness

The irony in my case, and I'm sure I'm not alone, is that it was 'motherly' feelings and anxieties that have rendered me childless. I longed to be a mother from around age 15. I suffered trauma and that led to mental health struggles, which led to poverty, all these things have taken a lot of time to overcome. I haven't overcome them. I ended up single, and it was important to me to provide my children with a loving, present, father, lovely home etc. I kept hoping these things would happen in time, but they didn't 😔 I care enormously about children, and have very maternal feelings towards them. So, I guess I could say "speaking as a motherly woman..."

So, I guess I could say "speaking as a motherly woman..."

^ I think speaking as a woman who has what she perceives to be motherly feelings". What does motherly even mean? Plenty of mums on here seeking advice about how to stop screaming at their kids, or working full time through choice that many SAHM can't comprehend, or mums at the end of their rope with their husbands etc...so who is to say?

Also there are plenty on here who say they weren’t maternal at all prior to having kids, and some say they still aren’t.

Those are good points. I know 'motherly' could mean different things to different people.

I guess I meant that I wanted to be a mum, and was the cooing-over-babies type for as long as I remember. I wanted to provide the very best for future children (of course the vast majority of people do) and sadly overthought it.

True. That's part of the irony!

Why post that in the Mumsnetters without Children topic? For what reason? Do you just like upsetting people? There are times when it's appropriate to keep your thoughts to yourself, or vent them elsewhere.

Re not understanding - I think everyone's experience of life, including parenting, is so unique and with all the empathy in the world, maybe it's impossible to totally understand anyone else entirely without living their experience. I do my best to try to understand other people's lives.

To be honest @abma95 your post made me cry.
I know I'm not physically a mother, and I'm totally grief-stricken about it. It's not something I need reminding of. I genuinely don't understand what you were hoping to achieve by posting what you did.

Also @abma95 don't understand what? Understand what it's like to love someone so much you'd give up your life for them? I do. I'd do that in a heartbeat for any of my nieces, nephew or friends' children. In fact any child.
Understand self-sacrifice? Well, I ended up childless because my life wasn't in the right place in time to responsibly have children, so...
Of course there are things I haven't experienced, including childbirth. But as mentioned, everyone's experience of life is so unique anyway, and no two parents will have precisely the same experience.
Many of my friends are mums. We have great friendships, and both do our best to understand each others lives. They wouldn't dream of reminding me of my loss as you have. I wouldn't dream of underestimating their challenges. We just respect one another. Basic personality is there, with or without children.

*I explain that I'm the same person as Tryingtobeagoodie! For some reason it uses a different username depending on whether I'm using my phone or tablet. I forgot that. I really should consolidate the two! 🤭

Talk about insensitive. I couldn’t care less on my own behalf because I’m childfree by choice, but I hope you’re going to apologise to Ruminate2much and the other women on this board who wanted to have children and couldn’t.

I wouldn't say you over thought it necessarily but moreover you did your best to protect any future children from what are known to be ACES, including parents with mental health issues or instability of parental relationship etc. Very intentioned. So even though you have that desire, you might not have been in the best place to have children. We could do with more people recognising the ideal scenarios for pregnancy and childrearing I think and deciding not to do it for the sake of the non existent children.

I wonder if people who say these kinds of things really believe them and if so if they're just naive or actually dim.

^ there's a lot of mother bashing on here too. Can't we accept there are some things people on all sides of this won't ever understand about the other?

No. Especially not while mothers are coming on this board specifically to upset some people. One person who this board is actually in tears because a mother has been so nasty.

Show me on the breastfeeding board where a childless woman has made a mother cry.

Show me on the children with SEN board where a childless woman has made a mother cry.

Show me any post where a childless woman has been so nasty to a mother purely because she's a mother that she's in tears about it.

Absolutely disgusting behaviour. And yet as a childfree by choice woman I'm told I'm immature, have no empathy and am selfish, while the mature, empathetic, selfless mothers are behaving like that. Awful.

@Isthisexpected thanks. I guess these things are multi-layered and complex. I never sat down and made a conscious choice to remain single and childless at all. On the contrary, I dreamt of marriage and motherhood to an almost tragic extent. In fact I never really developed a career, as I was so certain I'd be a full-time mum one day. Also, mental health challenges have prevented a career thus far, as much as they prevented motherhood. I was desperately trying to get my life in order, and trying to deal with serious challenges. So hard. These things take time unfortunately, and time waits for no woman, and neither do our reproductive systems it seems. Perimenopausal now and no man in sight, still poor, virtually homeless and mentally unwell. So that's that. I'm trying to make my peace with it, but deeply grieving. Not sure what I'm doing on Mumsnet?! I hoped to find kinship in this topic, the mental health board etc. Sometimes can, but often, as in the middle of the night just gone, end up very bruised. Silly me!

@abma95 how unpleasant

Everyone should show respect to others, I agree.
I don't see it as a case of 'sides' though. We're all human. I don't see women who've given birth as a separate tribe from women who haven't. Nice and not-so-nice people at every stage of relationship/parenting. I'd never engage in mother bashing. Many of my friends are mums, and I'd hoped to be one myself. I've got childfree-by-choice friends too, and everyone is equal to me.

I have worked as a barrister and prosecuted horrendous child abuse cases. I felt no differently about these cases even after having children.
Some people have empathy and some don't.

This board is primarily for MNers without children - others are welcome to post but please be respectful

Hey there, @abma95 - which bit of this notice at the top of the page didn’t you understand? Maybe your children can help you with your English comprehension if you’re struggling this much.